Sierra
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 11:56 AM |
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Towing a trailer.
I've done some research but still not 100% clear on the laws.
My car weighs 1443kg
Towing un braked 730kg
Towing braked 1200kg
Kit car weight 600kg
Driving licence past after 1997
Online I've found the following
If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can:
drive a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg
Now does this mean as long as the trailer weighs no more than 1400kg empty then I will be ok?
Or
Do you have to calculate the max weight that the trailer can handle to the weight of your car.
Trailer max weight loaded (1500kg) + weight of car towing (1443kg)
Still it's under 3500kg so should I be ok?
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coozer
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 12:25 PM |
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You have to factor in the maximum gross weight of the trailer. Don't matter what it weighs empty or how much you actually have on it, its the
maximum weight that counts.
You need to check the cars maximum towing weight, and make sure your max trailer weight is under that. Then check your B bit of your licence to see
what it allows.
For example if you get pulled by vosa and your running at the max for car, trailer and your licence they will drag you to a weigh bridge and check and
look hard for something to get you on.
And don't forget the new speed limits and lane rules that apply as well.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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edsco
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 12:28 PM |
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Your 2nd option is correct...
Your trailer might be rated at 1500kg, but this is combined weight of both the trailer and what is carrying. So assuming you trailer weighs 600kg and
the car 700kg = 1300kg thats fine.
The next thing to consider is the recommended towing capability of your car. If its the 1200kg quoted in your original post...strictly speaking,
using my example above you shouldn't tow it as it exceeds the max of the trailer. However, car manufacturers do err on the side of caution and
cut the quote towing weights down. Safety margin....and all that! I wouldn't recommend that excuse if you get pulled by the rozzers though!
The next thing to consider is the combined weight of your car and the combined weight of what you are towing. This combined figure should be no more
than 3500kg. In your quoted example : 1443 car kg + trailer max 1500kg (assuing the trailer weight and what its carrying don't exceed 1500 kg),
you should be fine!!
Simples
edsco
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dhutch
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 01:07 PM |
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Indeed, I think there was a small tweak for those who passed after 2003 as well which I presume wont apply, seems they have just added a step by step
site guide, a be it not a great one... :
https://www.gov.uk/towing-rules
But it can just about be done, to my understanding. I tow a covered trailer with a westfield in it, plated at 1200kg and weighing almost exactly that,
behind my BMW E36 compact, and also previously behind a 306 hatchback.
My trailer is a DIY build I obtained second hand, and I plated it to suit my needs using a plate bought from eBay, following what I head read online
and the recomendation of the local police force. It was also suggested I could quite happily derate an off the shelf trailer if I so wished.
Daniel
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Sierra
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 02:38 PM |
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Thanks for the information.
So because my cars max tow is 1200kg does that mean I must get a trailer played max 1200kg and obviously make sure trailer plus car on it
doesn't exceed 1200kg.
Or can I get a trailer plated say 1500kg but again make sure trailer and car on it doesn't exceed 1200kg, seeing as even though the trailer is
max rated 1500kg this still sits within 3500kg.
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ianhurley20
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 02:48 PM |
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A friend of mine was stopped a few months ago by a VOSA check. His tow car plus trailer plus the vehicle on the trailer came well within the cars max
train weight. The trailer was capable of carrying much more and what they did was add the max permitted load of the trailer to that which his car
could tow as the max train weight. This calculation took him over the limit so he was reported for being overweight and having no driving licence to
cover that weight. He ended up with 3 points on his licence and his insurance renewal went through the roof for having driven without a licence.
I might not have explained this very well but VOSA took the max capabilities of car and trailer as the important weights not what they actually
weighed on the road.
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dhutch
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 02:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sierra
Thanks for the information.
So because my cars max tow is 1200kg does that mean I must get a trailer played max 1200kg and obviously make sure trailer plus car on it
doesn't exceed 1200kg.
Or can I get a trailer plated say 1500kg but again make sure trailer and car on it doesn't exceed 1200kg, seeing as even though the trailer is
max rated 1500kg this still sits within 3500kg.
Previously it clearly said it was the plated MAM of the trailer that was used, that this had
to me less than the curb weight, and MAM of the trailer and Max Gross weight of the car had yo be under 3500kg but it s now less clear. I expect in
practice either is fine, get a sway bar if it doesn't feel nice first time out, makes a big difference.
Given the above, for the sake of £3 get a plate off eBay and derate it!
Daniel
[Edited on 20/1/2015 by dhutch]
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Sierra
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 03:04 PM |
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So just to be safe I need to make sure the trailer had been plated at 1200kg that way it's fine for my cars max tow of 1200kg.
If I did go for a plated trailer of 1500kg although being within the 3500kg max total they will probably do me for having a trailer that can take more
than my cars max tow.
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coozer
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 03:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sierra
So just to be safe I need to make sure the trailer had been plated at 1200kg that way it's fine for my cars max tow of 1200kg.
If I did go for a plated trailer of 1500kg although being within the 3500kg max total they will probably do me for having a trailer that can take more
than my cars max tow.
Thats right, trailer max rating needs to be less than the cars max towing. Anything over the max towing weight of the car means its dangerous and the
vosa will take it off you and do you..
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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mcerd1
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 03:54 PM |
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Its worth mentioning that you can get a trailer replated to show a lower MAM
The only issue with this is that a trailer designed for say 1500kg will weight more than one deigned for 1200kg - which leaves you with less actual
load capacity....
[Edited on 20/1/2015 by mcerd1]
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onenastyviper
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 05:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ianhurley20
A friend of mine was stopped a few months ago by a VOSA check. His tow car plus trailer plus the vehicle on the trailer came well within the cars max
train weight. The trailer was capable of carrying much more and what they did was add the max permitted load of the trailer to that which his car
could tow as the max train weight. This calculation took him over the limit so he was reported for being overweight and having no driving licence to
cover that weight. He ended up with 3 points on his licence and his insurance renewal went through the roof for having driven without a licence.
I might not have explained this very well but VOSA took the max capabilities of car and trailer as the important weights not what they actually
weighed on the road.
Did he have a newer B license (ie from about 1997)?
"If I knew what I was doing then it wouldn't be called research would it?...duh!"
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ianhurley20
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 05:25 PM |
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No he didn't! His trailer had a 3.5ton plate which took his train weight over the limit for his car -mine is a C4 and max it can tow is 1.4tons
so I would be 2.1tons over towing that trailer - even though I only had a 500kg haynes Roadster on it which with the trailer ULW added would be 1 ton
which would be within tolerances.
I've been looking for a 1.3 ton max trailer with ULW about 300kg ish since.
Hope I'm making sense :-)
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gavin174
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 05:34 PM |
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easiest thing to do is save all weighbridges as POI's in your satnav..
if VOSA flash you and tell you to pull over, quickly "navigate to nearest POI... weighbridge"
you cannot be done on your way to a weighbridge!!!!
http://www.essexkitcarclub.com
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ianhurley20
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 05:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gavin174
easiest thing to do is save all weighbridges as POI's in your satnav..
if VOSA flash you and tell you to pull over, quickly "navigate to nearest POI... weighbridge"
you cannot be done on your way to a weighbridge!!!!
Now that something I'm going to do - except it will not get round the max weight of the trailer problem - will it?- good idea though, I'm
going to try it if needs must!
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daviep
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 08:35 PM |
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Unless the recent changes affect older licenses then some of the pages on .gov are missing on some of the criteria for licenses obtained between 1st
Jan 1997 and 19th Jan 2013.
If you obtained your license between 1997 and 2013 then: Cut and paste from .GOV
HERE
You can tow trailers up to 750kg MAM (maximum authorised mass).
You can also tow larger trailers if: - the combined trailer and vehicle weight isn’t more than 3,500kg - the fully-loaded trailer weight isn’t more
than the unladen vehicle weight
Regards
Davie
[Edited on 20/1/15 by daviep]
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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onenastyviper
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 08:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ianhurley20
No he didn't! His trailer had a 3.5ton plate which took his train weight over the limit for his car -mine is a C4 and max it can tow is 1.4tons
so I would be 2.1tons over towing that trailer - even though I only had a 500kg haynes Roadster on it which with the trailer ULW added would be 1 ton
which would be within tolerances.
I've been looking for a 1.3 ton max trailer with ULW about 300kg ish since.
Hope I'm making sense :-)
I am not sure that makes sense - how can an offence have been committed if the laden weight of the trailer is within the train weight of the
vehicle?
At the time of the test, it would have been correct - VOSA argument that the trailer "could" exceed the train weight does not make sense
as it could require that every trailer sold be replated with the train weight of the tow vehicle.
This is possibly why the new(ish) regs commented about the total trailer weight not exceeding the kerbweight (or unladen weight) of the tow
vehicle.
Of course, for the few hundred pounds, I would recommend upgrading your license entitlement to B+E.
For a trailer, Ifor Williams CT115 has a Gross Weight of 1400kg and a unladen weight of 350kg - single axle and only 2.1m wide - possibly worth a
look?
Another would be a Brian James "Minnow" - I think it's called.
"If I knew what I was doing then it wouldn't be called research would it?...duh!"
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daniel mason
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 09:49 PM |
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Minnow are plated at 1380kg I think!
To me it reads:
The total combined weight (not plated weights) must not exceed 3500kg
And that the trailer + load must not exceed vehicle curb weight!
How can an empty trailer weighing 500kg unladen but plated at 2000kg be worse that a fully loaded trailer weighing 500kg with a 1300kg car on it but
plated at 1850kg? It doesn't make sense to me! And I would fall foul if this is he case !
My trailer with the force In it weighs around 1000kg but the trailers plated at 2000kg. My tow car weighs just over 2000kg
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bi22le
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 10:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
Minnow are plated at 1380kg I think!
To me it reads:
The total combined weight (not plated weights) must not exceed 3500kg
And that the trailer + load must not exceed vehicle curb weight!
How can an empty trailer weighing 500kg unladen but plated at 2000kg be worse that a fully loaded trailer weighing 500kg with a 1300kg car on it but
plated at 1850kg? It doesn't make sense to me! And I would fall foul if this is he case !
My trailer with the force In it weighs around 1000kg but the trailers plated at 2000kg. My tow car weighs just over 2000kg
I did loads of research into this and unfortunatly there are several stories of people getting fined becasue the plated trailer "allows"
them to tow more than they are leagally allowed to do.
I cant remember where I read it but one post inresponse to this problem was its like young people with only a type B cant be trusted to judge the
weight of the payload and therefore the trailer needs to limit it. Stupid, I know.
I have had to abide by this. I have a plated 850KG caravan chassis thats been converted, its braked.
I agree with Davie P comments on this, its exactly what my research nearly 2 years ago concluded to. The only thing I would add is that 750KG is the
maximum you can tow unbraked with any car IIRC. Thats why the 750Kg limit is significant.
[Edited on 20/1/15 by bi22le]
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daniel mason
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 10:13 PM |
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But surely if you get pulled and taken to a weigh bridge and are well under 3500kg there can't be an issue?
I've been towing for ages like this!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 10:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
But surely if you get pulled and taken to a weigh bridge and are well under 3500kg there can't be an issue?
I've been towing for ages like this!
but there are several different rules you have to follow at the same time:
1 - the plated weights of the vehicle + trailer need to be within the limits of your licence.
this is regardless of the weight your towing they day they pull you over to check - legally this is jest the same as if you tried using a car
licence to drive a 40 seat coach and told the police "its ok I only ever have 5 passengers at most" 
so if you've got a post 97 licence then your quite limited on the size you can tow without going to do a trailer test.
2 - the next set of rules is all about the suitability of the trailer for the tow vehicle or the other way round.
so if your car is rated to tow 1200kg braked and 600kg unbraked then the MAM of the trailer can't exceed these limits - again this is on plated
weights so no weigh bridges required....
3 - then finally there is the rules about overloading a trailer (or the car for that mater) this is the only bit where a weigh bridge comes in. they
can also do you for unsecure loads etc. if its not tied down correctly. (i.e. all the same rules that HGV drivers need to follow)
quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
My trailer with the force In it weighs around 1000kg but the trailers plated at 2000kg. My tow car weighs just over 2000kg
is that your tow cars kerb weight or max allowable weight ? (either way its over 3.5t so not legal on a B licence)
[Edited on 20/1/2015 by mcerd1]
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eddie99
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 11:02 PM |
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I've been stopped 2-3 times by VOSA Towing with an Alfa with a covered trailer.
As mentioned above, its irrelevant what you are carrying. The rules are MAM of Car + MAM trailer must be under 3500kg, MAM of trailer must be less
than unladen weight of car.
I derated the trailer to 1300kg because the alfa unladen was 1350kg.
MAM of car is about 2000kg, MAM of trailer is 1300, so comes in under the 3.5ton threshold.
As long as your within that its fine. It makes having a big towcar like a land rover no use because its MAM is most of allowance on its own.
One of the times the VOSA man said 'You can't drive with a trailer, you don't have B&E), i responded with the above info and he
said you've obviously looked into it, on your way.
[Edited on 20/1/15 by eddie99]
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daniel mason
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 11:11 PM |
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Looks like I might need yet another new tow car then
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slingshot2000
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 11:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
Looks like I might need yet another new tow car then(
And rig them up like a two locomotive train ?
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daniel mason
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| posted on 20/1/15 at 11:43 PM |
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2 smart cars should do it
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 22/1/15 at 11:03 PM |
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Jumping on the bandwagon, my maestro weighs 1070kg and manufacturer says it can tow 1170kg. I can get my mini brian james trailer plated to 1000kg but
I think id be pushing it.1100 would suit me better but not the car. To be honest I think im just going to take my test.ive been towing diggers behind
landrovers for years but now vosa have finally realised, and I'm older and worry about the consequences of an accident even if its a farce,
rather than find myself the wrong side of the line towing a lightweight empty trailer!
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