kurt
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 12:44 PM |
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Spark, petrol, but still not firing, help!
Having finally got a spark after months of problems, I have been trying start my R1 Indy. The engine turns over fine, there's a big fat blue
spark at the plug, there is petrol spraying out of the spark plug hole when I turn it over, but will this thing fire? no way. Any help, anyone,
please.
Yes, I have put the spark plug back in the hole.
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kurt
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 12:51 PM |
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Forgot to say it's also bloody freezing up here at the moment, I don't know whether this makes any difference.
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ReMan
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 12:52 PM |
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coils the wrong way round ie 1-3 should be 2-4?
www.plusnine.co.uk
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kurt
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 12:57 PM |
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Probaly an obvious question but just checking, do I simply switch the wiring from one set of coils to the other and vice versa?
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ReMan
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 12:58 PM |
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Yes
www.plusnine.co.uk
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kurt
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 01:17 PM |
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Tried that but still no joy. Any other ideas?
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ReMan
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 01:41 PM |
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do you have a choke?
have you tyried some easystart?
I am assusming that all the work has been done on the wiring to get you this far ie. bypassing the security and safety devices.
Are all the plugs definatly sparking and or wet with petrol?
is it fifing or even misfiring at all?
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Mike R-F
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 01:56 PM |
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Had similar problem after rebuilding my Essex V6. Wouldn't fire up despite spark & fuel. Checked, double checked & triple checked
electrics, everything seemed to be OK. Eventually got it to run very badly on max choke, no power, wouldn't rev above 2K, needed half a can of
Easystart to fire uo in the first place. Couldn't figure out what was wrong 'till I discovered the dizzy was one cog off where it should
have been. Amaizing the difference one little cog can make!
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smart51
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 02:05 PM |
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My r1 engine won't start from cold without any choke. If you havn't got a cable connected up, lean over and pull the choke lever by
hand.
I had exactly the same problem with my R1 engine the first time I tried to start it. A friend of mine suggested I spray a bit of WD40 into each carb
trumpet. It ran for a second or two, so I kept on spraying and eventually it ran on it's own. Once I had cleaned the carbs out and rebuilt
them, it was fine. No WD40? A drip or two of fuel in each carb should make it cough.
I have also heard that a product called "Start You B4stard" works very well.
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tks
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 03:26 PM |
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WD40??
use fuel,
its much better for this kind of use.
its the choke.. the engine wants to start to rich... (to low on air)...
use choke...
also check temp sensor failures..
(altough then it goes to 20 degrees spraying mode)
once the sparks get wet they don't spark any more sow its an bloody situation...
make sure that the right coil is on the right sparkplug...
when you re put in the sparks heat them up with your lighter...
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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RichieC
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 04:14 PM |
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Yeh, can only back up whats been said.
Providing your coils are correctly fitted, a squirt of fuel (dont use WD40, its not designed for starting) from a garden sprayer down the carbs is
perfect.
With this and the choke on, it will at least cough. Keep doing this and it will very soon sustain itself.
Good luck and keep us posted
Richie
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Hellfire
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 04:33 PM |
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We used new plugs on both our builds - only way we could get the engine going!
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smart51
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 05:07 PM |
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It isn't wrong to use WD40, though I wouldn't recommend filling your tank with it. Just because something is designed with one purpose in
mind doesn't mean it isn't useful for something else.
Why buy a can of engine starter just for one squirt if you already have something that will do the job? If it does start with WD40 then you know that
the electrical side of your engine is wired up correctly and that you have to look at the fueling. This is what happened to me. People suggested
that I replace the ECU or replace the spark plugs when actually the carbs needed attention.
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tks
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 05:58 PM |
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hahaha
You say it your self....
wy use WD40 if you have plenty of fuel squirts in your tank?
WD40 is an chechimal product who said it wouldn't affect the state of your engine parts when used?
One thing is for sure fuel/petrol doesn't do this sow use fuel!
carbs are coated with some stuff even so are throttle bodies etc. WD40 is an anti corrosion stuff maybe it very agressive to that type of stuff...also
it penetrates materials..
i always just squirts fuel into the hole..of the sparkplug...
but in this situ fuel isn't the problem..
because it reaches the sparkplug...
i think its air..
people over there cant be precise whats wrong with your case because it totally depends on the one who puts the question down..wich stories he
mentions and wich not..
WD40 example:!
Soap is like grease but that doens't mean you can throw it in your engine an couple of squirts to grease the bearings.. in fact it will ruin the
sticking working of oil...on that bearing in your gearbox.. after 10mins your bearing would be gone..
and unlike an human it doens't heal by itself(your engine en general)..
Tks
when in need of getting suchs examples stick closer to the principle of the liquid/stuff..
for fuel:
- use alcohol
- use lampoil
- use 90% alcohol drink
for grease
- use animal grease
- use bearing grease
etc.
for oil
- use car oil
- use oliveoil
what would run better an egine on oliveoil or WD40? (as oil replacer)
they both would be crap, but WD40 would be gone when reaching temp and olive oil not..
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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gary gsx
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 07:53 PM |
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I use wd40 over easy start only because my ears cant handle the racket easy start makes when it fires up, rattle nock rattle harsh gear that 
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kurt
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 08:59 PM |
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Thanks for all the advice. As yet I haven't tried any of them, but will give them a go this week and will let you all know the result.
Cheers, Kurt.
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jambojeef
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 10:24 PM |
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Kurt,
When you say you wer getting a spark - is that for sure?
Sorry to sound patronising but its easy to check for a spark by touching the electrode of the plug against some other part of the bodywork but not
have earth when you put it back in the head - so I guess what im saying is check for earth.
Also - my CBR1000 is fairly hard to start from cold and needs about 3/4 choke then a few blips of the throttle to get it to start - maybe theres a
nack to it somewhere..!
If you want me to nip over give us a shout - be nice to see the car and meet up.
Geoff
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trikerneil
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 12:33 AM |
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A healthy squirt of lighter fuel (the stuff you put in your Zippo) in each plughole, whack the plugs back in and spin the engine over. Always works
for me 
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RichieC
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 08:24 AM |
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Dont get too hung up about what to squirt in your pots, any combustible spray will work, but why use something else when you have petrol to hand?
Not sure if you said it, but new plugs will be a good help too. Ive had internal fractures in a plug and although when earthed to the block they
sparked away a treat, when screwed down into the head they didnt.
Clearly youd be having a very bad day if this was all 4 of yours, but, its worth bearing in mind - that saprk might not be as bright once theyre
screwed down into the head. Ifthe plugs were new anyway, you can all but discount this one.
Good luck, hope all goes well
[Edited on 21/11/05 by RichieC]
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smart51
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 08:34 AM |
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I was getting fuel out of my spark plug holes but the mixture was wrong, that's why mine wouldn't start.
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G.Man
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 08:55 AM |
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I am assuming you are running a proper carb fuel pump and a fuel pressure regulator?
If so then check the float needles arent sticking open with lack of use (they get full of white powder while they stand from all the fuel additives I
think???)
as it sounds like your engine is flooding
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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kurt
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 08:12 PM |
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Thanks once again for all the advice, but I probably won't be able to try anything until the weekend, I will keep you posted.
I spoke to Steve Keenan at MK today (who has been a huge help in getting the sparking problem sorted) and he asked me if I am using the standard
airbox. I am, but I have turned it around to get it under the bonnet. Steve says there has to be a good seal between the carbs and the airbox in
order that the slides in the front of the carbs are lifted by the vacuum generated by the airbox. If not the cylinders get lots of fuel and very
little air, ie flooded. My problem is that in the Haynes manual the bottom of the airbox has a connection with a clamp ring similar to the intake
rubbers on the carbs, but my airbox has none this and simply pushes onto the carbs and as a result is not a good seal. I also have no carb intake
trumpets which I presume will affect the venturi. So next stop, the bike breakers on Saturday morning to have a look at another airbox and hopefully
pick up some trumpets. Any thoughts on this will be much appreciated.
As for not getting a good earth when the spark plug is in the head, how would I know?
As for Easy Start, from what I've heard this stuff seems very volatile and doesn't do your big ends any good, so I think I'll steer
clear.
Cheers for now, Kurt
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kb58
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 09:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kurt
... As for Easy Start, from what I've heard this stuff seems very volatile and doesn't do your big ends any good, so I think I'll
steer clear.
Cheers for now, Kurt
True, but you aren't running the bike on the stuff for longer then 1-2seconds. It'll be fine to get you going, though it sounds like
you're already onto a possible cause.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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marc n
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 09:55 PM |
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quote:
Steve says there has to be a good seal between the carbs and the airbox in order that the slides in the front of the carbs are lifted by the vacuum
generated by the airbox. If not the cylinders get lots of fuel and very little air, ie flooded.
The zx9r is a ram air bike so uses a presurised airbox without a vacuum most of the time...
Also the vacuum increases the air as well as the fuel as it raises the needles, and doesnt even make any difference until you are off the primary idle
jets...
Sorry, dont think this is your cause...
This is G.Man not marc.n he left his pc logged on...
[Edited on 21/11/05 by marc n]
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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mkblade
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 11:07 PM |
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i had a similar prob with my blade engine,even on full choke it was a bitch to start.did the following
took the plugs out ,
cranked the engine over for a few secs
heated the plugs up with blow lamp and wirebrushed them .
put the plugs back in
it started then with choke and a bit of throttle.
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