Jumpy Guy
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| posted on 7/10/03 at 10:15 PM |
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Welding type question - what'm i doin wrong????
Got meself a shiny new welder, gas mig effort
Never welded before, and been told it should be easy, so i got two bits of scrap 16 guage RHS, clamped em together
Clamped the earth on,. turned on the welder and..............
not a lot happened.
Got an ocassional bang and green spark, then ten seconds of not alot except gas hissing, then another bang etc etc
what am i doing wrong? I'm holding the tip about quarter an inch away, but what seems to be happening is the wire is coming out, and Bang!,
vaporises that bit of wire, then nothing until another bit of wire.... and I treid turning the wire speed up to full..
All suggestions welcome- feel free to hurl abuse, especially if its vaguely helpful!
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Skirrow
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| posted on 7/10/03 at 10:22 PM |
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I'm no expert welder but it sounds as though you have the wire speed too high. On my MIG welder at least (SIP 130), when you turn the wire speed
up it increases the amps. It sounds like yours has way too much amps and is just toasting the wire as soon as it makes contact with the workpiece.
Having said that, it should take a lot less than 10 secs for the wire to reach the work. Perhaps you have a wirefeed problem.
[Edited on 7/10/03 by Skirrow]
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RoadkillUK
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| posted on 8/10/03 at 12:11 AM |
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Have a read of the attached document, it helped me a lot when I first started welding.
Roadkill - Lee
www.bradford7.co.uk
Latest Picture (14 Sept 2014)
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Piledhigher
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| posted on 8/10/03 at 02:24 AM |
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Your wire may be slipping in the feed rollers if it is not coming out of the welding gun. Mine did this recently when I put in a new roll of wire.
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suparuss
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| posted on 8/10/03 at 05:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Skirrow
I'm no expert welder but it sounds as though you have the wire speed too high. On my MIG welder at least (SIP 130), when you turn the wire speed
up it increases the amps. It sounds like yours has way too much amps and is just toasting the wire as soon as it makes contact with the workpiece.
[Edited on 7/10/03 by Skirrow]
sounds like the complete oposite to me, unless the welder has a stitch setting, the wire feed is probably way too low, or power setting is too low. if
you just using scrap, mess about with the settings and just go for it, the worst you can do is melt a tip, or set something on fire with all the
splatter  
what machine is it? if the noise coming from the motor are consistant, and the gap between sparks are the same all the time it is probably the
settings.
Russ.
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JoelP
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| posted on 8/10/03 at 09:32 AM |
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put wire in the middle as a start, say 8/10 if its 0.6mm and 6/10 if its 0.8mm.
if you fire it in the air, does the wire come out smooth or jerky? if smooth i'd suspect a poor earth, if jerky then its the feed. maybe the
reel is too heavy, i got a mere 5kg one and it was terribly jerky.
so if its smooth, try clamping one piece of metal and just put a spot of weld on that, making sure the earth clamp is well on. should form a nice pool
of molten stuff, not much splatter if the gas flow is high enough.
make sure two pieces are touching when welding them together or one wont be earthed, which wont help.
failing that, maybe some more details and one of the experts will undoubtedly know!
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givemethebighammer
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| posted on 8/10/03 at 10:07 AM |
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Another few thoughts
1. You are not trying to weld galvanized or plated steel, this will cause problems with spitting/popping and general splatter mess. (Exp zinc
plated)
2. You do have a good earth - clean the earth point and all the surfaces to be welded with the angle grinder to get a really clean contact.
3. You do have gas coming out of the MIG nozzle - no gas will cause the above symptoms.
Best thing is to get some who can weld to check your gear and show you how to use it. Probably only take half an hour.
If you live near Loughborough (midlands) You could pop round one evening / weekend for some help.
opps ,just seen that you are in Scotland, however if you are passing the offer still stands
[Edited on 8/10/03 by givemethebighammer]
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James
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| posted on 8/10/03 at 10:29 AM |
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Hi Jumpy,
Which welder is it? I've a SIP 150.
As JoelP says, check your feed is constant when just pulling the trigger. If that's ok then I'd start with all the settings in about the
middle and use only one piece of metal to start.
You should start with the wire protruding about 6/7mm from the tip. I actually have a pair of welders cutters that measure this for you as you cut!
They were £1 from a show!
I'd start with a piece of 3mm as it's a bit thicker and you'll be less likely to blow holes when you're getting started.
You could start by building up what's called a Weld Pad. By this I mean you weld a line onto your 3mm, then overlap it slightly and do another
line of equal length. After you're done several lines you should have built up a nice square of weld that's 3/4mm thick.
Always keep the tip perpendicular to the weld (atleast as much as possible)!
Anyway, there's lots more to say- Viper and Mark Allanson are both qualified instructors (IIRC) and I'm just a qualified bull-shiter so
try and attract their attention to this post!
HTH,
James
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 8/10/03 at 09:41 PM |
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It's really difficult to solve these problems without actually seeing the unit and welds. I does sound like the tension on the feed rollers is
not set.
First if you hear gas, sounds like that is OK
With you mask off, and away from the earth and workpiece, pull the trigger and see if the wire comes out of the tip smoothly and at about 1 1/2"
per second. Turn the power up to full and give some 3mm plate the treatment. This should give you something to play with.
If not, and the wire did not come out smoothly, try tightening the tensioner that presses the roller onto the wire feed roller.
If this does not do the trick, post again with more detailed descriptions
Mark
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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philgregson
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| posted on 9/10/03 at 08:50 AM |
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I'm not any kind of welding expert and as such have experienced most forms of crap welding so here is my 2p worth.
If your current is set to high with respect to your wire speed (or visa versa), as you make the arc it will burn back to the tip.
Sometimes when it does this the end of he wire adheres to the tip. Then when you press the trigger the wire feed tries to force wire down the liner
until it builds up enough tension (the long 10 sec delay) to pop the end of the wire off the tip.
The wire then lunges out of the tip, hits the workpiece, and then 'bang' - process starts again.
Probably a load of B******* but this has happened in a sort of way to me.
Cheers
Phil.
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Bigfoot
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| posted on 9/10/03 at 10:04 AM |
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If you have never welded before, or don't even know how to set the welder up, it is unlikely that you will get far without some tuition. There
are just so many things that could be wrong that it is hard to know what advice to give. Here's a rough and ready guide. Please don't
shoot me down for the simplistic nature of the advice.
Firstly, when you fit the wire reel, you must adjust the tension on the wire feed rollers. This is usually an adjustable spring loaded clamp. The
tension should be such that gripping the wire between the thumb and finger at a point between the reel and the rollers, whilst the wire is feeding,
makes the rollers slip on the wire. This means that if you fuse the wire to the tip while welding, the rollers will slip rather than feeding tangled
wire into the feed tube. If the tension is too light, the wire may feed in a jerky motion, it is worth wasting a few feet of wire to get this
right.
Next the gas feed needs to be enough to cover the weld, if your regulator does not have a gauge, wind it in until you can hear the gas leaving the
hand piece. If in doubt, crank it up, gas is cheap and lasts for ages.
Set the amperage for at least 130, and turn up the wire feed until there is about an inch a second coming out of the tip. This may sound unscientific
but it will get things started, once you manage to strike an arc and get a pool of molten metal going, you will soon figure out where to go from
there.
A number nine window in your helmet will allow you to see what you are doing, they always seem to be supplied with a number 10, very safe, but too
dark, you can,t see a bloody thing.
Once you get the hang of it, this is worth considering also. The hand pieces on medium sized MIG's all seem to be supplied with the tip too far
up inside the shroud, even when you adjust it as far back as it will go. This is fine for heavy gauge steel, as the arc is longer, and hotter, and the
molten wire "sprays" into the weld, penetration is good. For the lighter gauge jobs that we are doing, the tip should be close to the end
of the shroud, I have cut the shroud back on my hand piece, (circumsised it ??) it can still be adjusted back if necesary.
If you still can't get a result, get someone to demonstrate, I assume that a picture is still worth a thousand words these days.
Cheers
Bigfoot
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givemethebighammer
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| posted on 9/10/03 at 12:21 PM |
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I agree, get someone to show you. Worth a books worth of explanation.
Not sure about the 9 shade glass though. I find using a 10 gave me a headache. I find using a very bright work light (halogen) to light my work piece
helps. (I also use an 11 shade glass without problems).
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JoelP
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| posted on 9/10/03 at 12:27 PM |
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auto darkening visor.... the only way forward in a dark garage!
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Jumpy Guy
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 posted on 12/10/03 at 11:32 AM |
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RESULT !! now I am King Of The Welders!!
well, not really, but a lot further forward
asked my local Nova teens if they knew a welder and Lo! a blocke that does mobile welding!
came round for an hour, filled him with coffee and biscuits
set up the welder, and an hour tuition!!
one question though- my MigMate - the wire feed seems to be inconsistent- feed, then slow feed, then quick
this seems to depend on how straight the cable is between me and the welding unit...
anyone else experienced this ??
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JoelP
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| posted on 12/10/03 at 11:45 AM |
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maybe the reel is too heavy? 5kgs is too much on mine... this makes it very lurch rather than slow and fast though, so i would blame the feed reels.
maybe fiddle with tension.
try getting the feed smooth with the gas off and pointed in the air, that way you could even re use the wire thats wasted!
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Jumpy Guy
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| posted on 12/10/03 at 12:10 PM |
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another query, while Im on.... goggles vs mask vs...
got one of those terrible hand held things with the welder- useless, and far too dark, according to my new welding guru..
so, whats better, goggles, mask, flip down etc etc
what glass do i need?
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JoelP
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| posted on 12/10/03 at 12:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
auto darkening visor.... the only way forward in a dark garage!
and i say again! the only way forward. normal glass is way too dark in my books, unless you can make the workshop very bright to compensate. in my
dingy garage, towards the end of the day it is hard to see the piece even thru this mask, which is only about half as dim as a pair of shades. couldnt
inagine doing it with perminant shades.
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blueshift
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| posted on 12/10/03 at 01:07 PM |
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I got a 500W halogen "site light" from screwfix, some inordinate cheapness like 14 quid or something.. bright enough to see through the
welding mask without needing auto-darkening (and much cheaper).
also handy for bashing sierras in the middle of the night.
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JoelP
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| posted on 12/10/03 at 01:35 PM |
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that is actually quite a good point mister shifter. maybe two to reduce shadows? might even get some myself!
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Mix
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| posted on 12/10/03 at 02:01 PM |
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Not to be outdone !!
I have five sixty watt strip lights, four 500 watt halogens, two 150 watt smaller halogens, an assortment of torches and an auto darkening visor, but
I still have to shuffle around to find a position where I can get a reasonable view of the weld.
It is however quite warm in my garage
Seriously, I would have struggled big-time without the auto visor
Mick
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 12/10/03 at 02:15 PM |
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All goes back to what I've said in the past - I'm a competent welder, not a good one. To help me along I employ every 'trick'
that makes good welding easier. These include:
Auto-darkening welding mask.
MIG pliers that cut the wire just the right length, without having to think about it.
The right gas - Argon with 5% CO2 & a squirt of oxygen (Argoshield Light)
Getting the edges of the work REALLY clean and grease-free.
Trying to make most of my welds 'down-hand' rather than vertical or overhead.
Good welders can overcome all sorts of obstacles and still make good welds - I need all the help I can get!
cheers,
David
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suparuss
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| posted on 12/10/03 at 03:51 PM |
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i have been using the same hand held thing i got with me sip mig mate 2 years ago, is dark and covered in splatter like there is no tomorrow but it
still works fine for me, just biding my time for a reactive one
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Peteff
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| posted on 12/10/03 at 05:52 PM |
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I use a hand held mask with a 10 shade glass for most stuff but if I do anything that needs 2 hands I have a head mounted one with the side screws
slack enough so that when i have the parts lined up I nod my head and the visor falls into place, all very high tech. Don't try using any form
of goggles as you will get sunburn where they don't cover.
What wire are you using in the welder and is the feed roller the right way round. It has 2 grooves for .6 and .8. I had a sip 130 many moons ago and
it had a faulty transistor on the feed circuit which caused it to fluctuate but that was a one off. The shop sorted it for me. On my welder the wire
feed is strong enough for me not to be able to stop it by gripping the wire between finger and thumb. Try screwing the wire tension nut off and back
on again gradually as it can be too
tight and labour the feed motor.
yours, Pete.
[Edited on 12/10/03 by Peteff]
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 12/10/03 at 10:34 PM |
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as an amateur welder, I still use the hand held thingy that came with the welder.
I have never found any need to change. Im sure there are better ways, but once you get the timing right between striking the arc and getting the mask
in front of you, it all works fine.
I agree that the std glass is too dark - but once the arc is lit its fine
atb
steve
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givemethebighammer
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| posted on 13/10/03 at 08:31 PM |
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Welding don't start without these
machine mart catalogue spring / summer 03
http:\\www.machinemart.co.uk
1. headshield £10 approx page 73
2. Welding Gauntlets £3.51 pr page 294
3. replacement lenses £2.93 page 73
4. fire resistant overalls £30 page 291 (or £9 from your local army surplus, if you like olive green !!!)
Dressed up like a cyberman - yes
Burnt fingers etc and sunburn on your face and arms - no
Left my overalls off once this summer, won't do it again. I set fire to my t-shirt !!!!
Over the top but I like my skin the way it is
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