now the s3 has sold im after a beginner/novice car to do some sprints/hills but ideally i would like it road legal also. im a novice driver and have probably only covered 500 road miles in a rear drive car. done 1000's in imprezas and evos though.
i want something reliable,easy to maintain,relatively easy to setup and relatively competative in class (beside the novice driver)
been looking at some westfields,furys etc as i cant find a striker or similar at moment but megabusas are expensive and the whole idea of selling the s3 was to release some funds for a new house and a megabusa would cost 3/4 of the s3. and i clouldnt afford to repair if i damaged it or blew an engine.
think around £8k for a car plus trailer package and could be BEC or CEC, should be a ball park figure.
any help on a car or a class i should go for would be great,thanks

How often are you planning on doing them, if pretty regular if it was me I would maybe be looking at a single seater and sacrificing the car being road legal, would be immense fun I would have thought

Do you have a definet Class in mind ?

Are you thinking Road going ? Sports libre ? or ?


Worth a look on www.uphillracers.com as there's some good info and help available on there.

Have a good mate who is a regular Hillclimber in various championships so if you have any specific questions please ask away
although i believe there's a few Hillclimb lads who are on here ?

As a novice I would start with a road legal car, and fit into the production car class its less expense and will teach you to drive. I started this way , then after a few seasons you can modify it to fit into any class you want ( within reason) I went from roadcar class to full mod prod in 6 years with the same car.

the long term idea would be single seaters but theres no point at the moment as id not be able to drive it to full potential.
was thinking of a road going bike engined car or a bec race car (ex rgb) to get going with for a year or so.

Am I missing a thread? I thought you were doing a busa transplant?!!

Wouldn't the Cateringvan have fitted the bill? Any reason you didn't go that route?

done the busa install on the s3 cat but then lost out on a house cos id spent too much on it again.so sold it to re coup some cash. so want solmething a lot cheaper.
i coudnt afford to damage the caterham in any way whatsoever and needed some money back!

I have looked at having a go at sprints for a while, but wanted to try it first if possible before I planted more money down the drain. As such wished to just run in my kit, but not being fully compliant with windscreen, msa spec roll bar etc. was an issue. There is a glimmer of hope with a new class in the Northern scene.

Class 2D road going that does not fit in a 2A, 2B or 2C. Look it up in one of the regs, I believe it may be an in.

I am planning on taking my lowly car to a scrutineer to see if its possible. if it is then use of our standard kit cars could be a first step?

Adrian

Have a look thru results to get an idea whats competitive, its only a rule of thumb as its largely down to the driver of course.

open wheeled 7 types seem better on hills, full bodied on track and sprints
id like a stm phoenix but there arent any for sale

Since it's near you, have a chat with the guys at Wigton Motor club - some good stuff to get you started http://www.wigtonmc.co.uk/gettingstarted/speed/index.php - and - http://www.wigtonmc.co.uk/events/speed.php - as they organise a whole championship based round sprint and hillclimbs.

I've only autoslalomed my 7 type, and actually don't like the distraction passengers provide. I'd rather concentrate on driving, even on the road, so my next pure race car will be a single seater. I would think they'd be cheaper too.

Hi daniel mark is currently building a race car with a blade engine it will be for sale and could be ready for the start of wigton mc championship mark won the championship last year in the orange car he is on hear as purdy get in touch and come and have a look
Ali

Hi Dan,
First of all join Wigton MC. They have the best sprint series in the area, they also run Autosolos.

I wouldn't get too tied up about what car to use, the first one I did was with an R1 Striker, great fun, BUT there are guys in that group that have many years of rallying/motorsport experience and are very, very quick.

I did two years of sprints but on reflection I had thrown myself in at the deep end hoping that the car and I would be competitive after a couple of track days - not so. That may not apply to you of course, I guess being much younger is a good start!

There are those who do drive cars there but the majority are trailered. I got a little fed up of the distances to travel, does it need a cat? is your suit in date? etc. Lots of rules and regs. I now do Autosolos in a roadgoing car, nearby, little regulation, low cost and almost as much fun.
Why not have a go at those first, after you have joined Wigton MC of course?

quote:

---

Originally posted by daniel mason
i want something reliable,easy to maintain,relatively easy to setup and relatively competative in class (beside the novice driver)..
..i clouldnt afford to repair if i damaged it or blew an engine.
...think around £8k for a car plus trailer package and could be BEC or CEC, should be a ball park figure.
any help on a car or a class i should go for would be great,thanks

---

thanks everyone. by competative i meant the car would be far better than me anh possibly help make up for the lack of talent on my behalf

There are a lot of very powerful/very expensive under-1700cc kits now and BECs now appear to be in the over 1700cc category regardless of cc from the regs I've seen for the season. I've never seen a set of regs for any sprints I do that require a windscreen in what we call A7/A8 (road going Kits/Lotus etc)

i thought non road going bec's were split in 2 classes split at around 1125cc?

to add to whats been said, id say buy a car that you have zero emotional attachment to, and treat it as a dirty racer. If you spend hours building, polishing, tinkering, you wont be as effective and ceratinly wont want to risk throwing it at the scenery! Brand names mean jack, its time sthat are king. A certain well known 7 type manufacturers series are often the butt of jokes when they rock up with 'all the gear, no idea'

the advice for a road legal car initially is good, as the purchase of a decent trailer (you'll soon hate towing a caravn chassied effort up and down the country) all adds to the costs and they need soemwhere to store them and are eminently nickable too.

as Jim says, almost any car will be more competoitive than the driver in first season, thats no disrespect, certainly was the case with me. Times will tumble at second trip to a venue, and just getting into the groove. Hills/sprints is an odd discipline as theres a lot of hanging around then you have to go at 110% then its all over. No warm ups, no qually etc. Its very noticeable though, how good on cold tyres and opening laps ex sprint/hills guys are if they take up circuit racing ;-)

another quick point is that the more track biased a car becomes, the less useful it is, and potentially the fun element becomes hard work! I went from a road legal car and it evolved to track only and ultimately sports libre and foot wide slicks. By that time teh car was at that level, it was a PITA, soooo looow it was a pig to get on my ultra low tilt bed trailer. tyres were so soft that after every run, the drive back to the paddock picked up all sorts or crap on the hot, sticky tyres requiring each one cleaned off before the next run. When testing, its was a bag of poo at anything other than 11/10ths, whereas a road legal car, you can hoon down the road for an afternoon blast or to test out after your latest demon modification/repair.

That said, there aint nothing like a car setup for the hills properly, full hillcimb slicks are staggering, the grip and especially braking is breathtaking

im gonna buy a road legal toy and get back on the hills this season whilst the slow build of my new racer continues, family and work commitments allowing.

dont buy your ultimate weapon, as you may find that what you think you want, isnt what you really need or enjoy. Jims Striker was mega, much better than the sum of its parts and certainly embarrassed a lot of expensive 7 types by slaughtering their times!

as for clothed or unclothed, really depends on which championship you are gonna follow. If its predominantly hills, a 7 types potentially lighter, but they 'hit the aero wall' at places like Anglesey (depending on which circuit layouts used) , Aintree, Goodwood etc.

hi i have a westfield megablade 929 fireblade engine just rebuilt new gearbox .full cage ,fully rose jointed,light weight body work,fire eater.new 6 point belts,radtec alloy rad all the right bits and very competive in class in hills and sprints results to prove
if you want to pm me i can send you photos of the car and price

regards jonny

I started off with an old Westfield last season , 2l Pinto with fast road cam, and ran in the modified production road going class. It was great fun, with really friendly and helpful people , did a few bits through the season, The biggest help I found was fitting a decent ratio diff and a LSD. Have done a full rebuild for the coming season. Fairly cheap to run, and spares are ok. I do take it to meetings on a trailer , but it is very useful and quite enjoyable to give it a run up the road when you have change few things.

Mikef

Not trying to be rude or cheeky but how have you only managed to cover 500 miles in the 4 kits that are in your profile?

yeah 500 ish in total
most in the zx9 stm
a few in the R1 mnr
none in the s2000 vortx
and around 100 in the caterham

These are the latest regs I have

A Road Going Series Production Cars (S.10.10.1) & Road Going Specialist Production Cars (S.10.10.2)
- Excluding cars in Appendix 1
1. ‘Standard Cars’Up to 1600cc. – 2wd only, list 1Atyres
2. ‘Standard Cars’Over 1600cc to 2000cc. – 2wd, list 1A tyres
(See Appendix 2 for specification of ‘Standard’)
3. Up to 1400cc - 2wd only, list 1A or 1B tyres
4. Over 1400cc to 2000cc – 2wd only, list 1A or 1B tyres
5. Over 2000cc - 2wd only, list 1A or 1B tyres
6. 4wd – all engine capacities, list 1A or 1B tyres

- Road Going Kit Type and Replica Cars (Examples are included in Appendix1)
7. Up to 1700cc. (excluding all Motorcycled engine cars) list 1A or 1B tyres
8. Over 1700cc ( including all Motorcycled engine cars) list 1A or 1B tyres

B. Modified Series Production Cars (S.10.10.3) and Modified Specialist Production Cars (S.10.10.4)
9. Up to 1400cc
10. Over 1400cc to 2000cc
11. Over 2000cc

C. Sports Libre Cars (S.10.10.6)
12. Up to 1800cc and Motorcycled engined cars up to 1100cc
13. Over 1800cc and Motorcycled engined cars over 1100cc

D. Racing Cars (S.10.10.7) and Hillclimb Super Sports Cars (S.10.10.5)
14. Racing Cars up to 1100cc.
15. Racing Cars over 1100cc.

E Invited Championship Contenders
16. The WSCC Speed Series Championship Contenders
4
Appendix1
Caterham, Westfield, Sylva, Fisher and Lotus 7, Elise, Exige and 340R, Vauxhall 220, X-bow- and similar types/
derivatives of any of these cars.
Appendix2.
‘Standard Cars’are those defined by Road Going Series Production in MSA Blue Book (S11.1.1) but restricted to 2wd
cars using list 1A tyres. Cars are to be to manufacturers’original specification, with modifications limited to safety items
(see applicable sections of S10), along with replacement wheels and aftermarket exhausts (not manifold); no other
modifications (body, brakes, suspension, transmission or engine etc) will be permitted (S10.10 modified).
Appendix3.
Note: Cars using forced induction will be classified as having an engine capacity increase of 40%, those using diesel
fuel a reduction of 30% (e.g. a 2000cc turbo diesel will be considered to be the equivalent to a 1960cc normally aspirated
petrol engine), and a rotary engine an increase of 50%.
To compete in a Single Seater Racing or Sports Libre Car, manufactured after 31/12/1960 of more than 2000cc, the driver
must hold a Speed National A [OPEN] or Race National A licence unless the car is currently licensed for use on the public
highway.

so would a non road going bec 7 be in sports libre or does it fit somewhere in the modified specialised production class?

That's how I read it, but see http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/bluebooks/12/317_328_Specific_Regulations_for_Sprints,_Hill_Climbs_and_Drag_Racing_(S).pdf

Read section 12



[Edited on 10/3/13 by Westy1994]

jeffw post refers to a championships classes not the national classes. To be honest, its a ballache with differing classes nationally. Cars that are legal for a region, may not be legal for the same class nationally and vice versa. the MSA tried to tidy that up a few years ago by stiplulating categories, but still allow organisers to create their own subdivisions or additional regs within teh SRs (supplementary regs supplied with event entry form). Not a problem if you only compete at one venue or one region, but if you want to compete nationally and do all the great tracks/hills, it can be a PITA. From what ive seen, 7types do tend to fall foul more than most (as Jim pointed out, to screen or not to screen etc)

If the cars road legal in Sports Libre you dont need a National A Open licence either, so Sports Libres not as bad as some portray. Personally i thinks its the best class for the tinkerer, as the regs are very open, although it does mean one day you will have a an engined changed tin-top in your class, the next a Radical or FTD chasing single seater

All of the regs I've seen for the South East tend to look just like that. You may well be correct that it changes else where, I don't know.

soth west split bec's on engine size. others vary! its a nightmare

volvo 740 , youll certainly need to drive it ...... , maybe youll need a sailing certificate too.

already got an s60 D5 auto so might give that a blast!

"my name's Daniel and I'm a seven addict!"

Sorry couldn't resist

On a more serious note I've been toying with doing what your doing, I think I would be going for a seven something reasonably priced with any engine Cec or bec as long as spec is reasonable. Save some pennies for decent rubber and a good set of suspension, Do a season find your feet and then upgrade engine to whatever class you fancy most.

just my 2p worth
Steve

thats what i was thinking. im not just a 7 addict. been throught 2x imprezas and an evo 8 but they were expensive to run!
i build the cars to a good spec,spend a fortune and dont dare drive them hard as i get attactched to them and cant afford to damage/blow them up.
my s2000 powered mnr is pounding the tracks in southern france and the caterham busa is on its way to austria!
im gona buy a built car this time and and try my luck! been offered a great deal on a car and trailer package so might bite the bullet

quote:

---

Originally posted by jeffw
All of the regs I've seen for the South East tend to look just like that. You may well be correct that it changes else where, I don't know.

---

The important bit is this:-

Get a car you like, doesn't matter what it is as it'll fit in one class or another (assuming here we're still talking about a Kit - or close to a kit - of some description!) and get out there and have a damn good laugh, you'll not find a friendlier place to have some motorsport fun that your average hillclimb paddock.