Here we go again , I do understand people are pissed off but I can't see this being allowed to work.
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/245334/Petrol-blockade-to-halt-Britain-
Sadly, these occasions are the only ones when the Government listens.
come on then woodster what do you reccommend we do to reduce fuel cost.
..........
We pay over 80p in Fuel tax and vat etc. its not fair.
forget the blockades. lets all go on national strike, shut down everything
Ahh - The Express - the home of good reporting...
...or, to put it another way - the biggest bunch of sh*t stirrers in the UK!
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Ahh - The Express - the home of good reporting...
...or, to put it another way - the biggest bunch of sh*t stirrers in the UK!
Ridiculous fuel prices are killing this country and politicians are crooks just like the banks......!!!
Time for us to take the wee methinks
Don't have to read the daily bog papers to know fuel prices are killing Industry in this country.....
What about a national 'buy no fuel' week, everyone use public transport how ever long it takes and overload the system, show that there is
no real alternative to cars yet.
No deliveries, staff late for work , all legal and 'green'.
Excess stocks of fuel at refineries , super tankers queing up , and the climate people would be happy too!
We are so apathetic in the UK , and the good old class system is good for a bit of 'divide and conquer!!
quote:
Originally posted by jossey
come on then woodster what do you reccommend we do to reduce fuel cost.
..........
We pay over 80p in Fuel tax and vat etc. its not fair.
I'm all for bringing the cost of fuel down,
BUT: given that the government can only spend what it gets in tax revenue (unless they just borrow even more)
what should we all go without in return ?
I'm fed up with one party giving everyone more than we can afford by borrowing, then the other lot making cuts
to get us out of their mess. Repeat every 4-10 years depending on how long it takes us to forget............
Both parties have sold off all our assets, so nothing left there,
Any ideas?
I'm keen for cheaper fuel just the same as the next man but if tax isn't derived from fuel then it will have to come from somewhere else and
I'd rather it was something that I have some control over consumption of like VAT (overall spending), alcohol duty (booze) and fuel (mileage/car
choice) than something I can't control so easily like income tax (work harder - pay more...).
To give you an idea, I gave up my Leon Cupra 1.8T 3 years ago and bought a Toyota Aygo. This was at the peak of the fuel price hike last time around
(mid 2008) and at that time I was driving 40 miles a day to work and back 5 days a week (13k miles per annum with other journeys). I was already car
sharing by taking a colleague to work and he was effectively paying half the fuel cost of the journey (10p per mile) which was about 40% of the cost
of public transport for him and obviously lessened the burden on me (win-win).
When I changed to the Aygo I was able to cover the entire cost of fuel from my passenger's contribution leaving me with only the non-fuel costs.
Even better, the 4 year old Cupra yielded £9k in the trade in agains the £8k brand new Aygo so I got £1k back in a cheque from the dealer. Obviously
the downside was in the driving experience of Aygo versus Cupra but to be honest on a commute it was no big deal and well worth it. I also had the
added advantage of lower insurance costs, service costs, tyres, road tax etc etc. Overall savings I worked out to by nearly £3.5k per year!! Not
kidding!!
Now I know that farmers and haulage companies need certain types of vehicles to get the job done and an Aygo towing a plough might not be a great idea
but they can at least reclaim tax on fuel consumed for business purposes. For the average motorist I would advise having an objective look at what you
can do to minimise fuel and other motoring related costs. There may be tough decisions to be made such as changing vehicle or even just driving more
efficiently but it can be done. As a motoring enthusiast, I get my kicks out of the mileage I do in my Locost and even though this isn't free, it
is considerably cheaper than having a fast car to drive every day for the commute. It also has the added advantage of making the Locost seem even
faster than it is because compared to an Aygo it is night and day whereas compared to the Cupra it was just a different type of high performance.
So, not trying to wind anyone up here and I appreciate there are some who might not be able to do much to reduce costs but for me, as I said, fuel
usage is something I can reduce if I put my mind to it and in doing so over the last 3 years I have saved well over £10k.
Cheers,
Craig.
ps. Stopping the country from working through blockades and strikes is the worst thing we can do. It is the worst part of the British mentality and
does nothing but harm to our reputation and financial situation. Terribly short term vision.
[Edited on 8/5/2011 by craig1410]
Is being held hostage by who evers blockading fuel better than being charged more money for it? All that happens is everyone gets inconvenienced and can't buy fuel, and has to pay more because there'll be a panic, and if it lasts long enough the prices won't return to what they were before. Net result, fuel is more expensive.
The trouble is Craig1410 that not everone has the same choice, Mileage wise, I'm not too bad at the moment, but work moves around for me and I
could be much further away soon. We do have a smaller car for my wife (she's a community nurse and needs to be mobile) and my car is a medium
sized diesel, but with three kids we need the larger car for normal day to day family life. Fuel is now becoming a major part of our expenses, while
also being a necessity for our professions.
The government do need to bring in revenue, but too much of it is being concentrated on vehicle and fuel duties, in the knowledge that those that are
paying the most, frequently have little choice. It is time that some of the duty was removed and spread out more evenly amongst the population as a
whole.
If jobs for life were still the norm, the necessity for travel would be much less, but as it is not, people must travel to what is available and fuel
is therefore no longer a luxury, but an essential, yet it is being taxed as a super-luxury.
I have just returned from Houston where fuel is $4.00 per US gallon, people still think that down sizing is going from a 3.5 tonne truck to a 3 tonne
truck!! An eco warrior drives a car that does more than 30mpg and anything that does more than 40mpg is derided as a toy.
Whilst I was there USA Today published a news item to say that the tax take in the USA had gone down.
Perhaps we can learn a lesson here,..?
In the meantime the WRX still gets thrashed and the Fury blasted here and there, I burn petrol rather than drink beer!
:-)
does anyone remember when kids walked to school, job was near where you lived,
and you were happy with one holiday (probably in a caravan).
Have we just all got used to having a lot more than we can afford, and complaining
that we can't have even more ?
Are we any happier or better off for it ?
oh I am happy, very happy, and all the Americans in Houston who have had fuel go from $2.85 to $4.00 are sad,...
my car is yellow!
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
The trouble is Craig1410 that not everone has the same choice, Mileage wise, I'm not too bad at the moment, but work moves around for me and I could be much further away soon. We do have a smaller car for my wife (she's a community nurse and needs to be mobile) and my car is a medium sized diesel, but with three kids we need the larger car for normal day to day family life. Fuel is now becoming a major part of our expenses, while also being a necessity for our professions.
The government do need to bring in revenue, but too much of it is being concentrated on vehicle and fuel duties, in the knowledge that those that are paying the most, frequently have little choice. It is time that some of the duty was removed and spread out more evenly amongst the population as a whole.
If jobs for life were still the norm, the necessity for travel would be much less, but as it is not, people must travel to what is available and fuel is therefore no longer a luxury, but an essential, yet it is being taxed as a super-luxury.
People bitch like crazy when public services are cut and yet complain at paying taxes. Some are even so blind that they blame the politicians and
call them greedy as if all the extra tax money went into their own pockets. Wise up. Government doesn't have its own money, it raises cash
from taxes and spends it on the hospitals and schools you whine about when spending is cut. Pay the tax or accept spending cuts - you can't have
it both ways.
OK, so you don't want to pay tax on fuel. What would you rather pay it on? You can't pay less tax without having even bigger spending
cuts. Choose.
i missed the last one as i was on holiday but i would like to see someone stick two fingers up to all those who take take take.
The only way to deal with increased costs is to join them, turn greedy and take as much as you can when you can from who you can, thats how they work.
After losing my 12 year job last year i have managed to get a new one contracting and i now have to drive 55 miles a day instead of 15, not much but
when your car does 15 mpg its making a difference to my take home pay. Im even using the kitcar as much as i can (twice so far lol) to save fuel!
Ive done as much as i can to save fuel, other than taking a loan out and swapping cars i cant do much else as no one travels to my location that i
know of. So far ive reduced my speed to what ever i can get away with so i am not late this means most day 40 mph on a 60 limit road is my speed. I
also play the game of not trying to use my brakes, as using them means im wasting energy so it gets fun on islands and traffic lights trying to time
as early on as possible so i dont have to stop. Also driving as smooth as possible not just with the throttle but cornering. This alone has took me to
18 mpg and earlier this week i replaced the vacuum advance for the dizzy as it was broke and this seems to be making it even better (not done a full
tank on it yet so cant prove it).
If i get to 20mpg im having a party lol.
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
People bitch like crazy when public services are cut and yet complain at paying taxes. Some are even so blind that they blame the politicians and call them greedy as if all the extra tax money went into their own pockets. Wise up. Government doesn't have its own money, it raises cash from taxes and spends it on the hospitals and schools you whine about when spending is cut. Pay the tax or accept spending cuts - you can't have it both ways.
OK, so you don't want to pay tax on fuel. What would you rather pay it on? You can't pay less tax without having even bigger spending cuts. Choose.
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
People bitch like crazy when public services are cut and yet complain at paying taxes. Some are even so blind that they blame the politicians and call them greedy as if all the extra tax money went into their own pockets. Wise up. Government doesn't have its own money, it raises cash from taxes and spends it on the hospitals and schools you whine about when spending is cut. Pay the tax or accept spending cuts - you can't have it both ways.
OK, so you don't want to pay tax on fuel. What would you rather pay it on? You can't pay less tax without having even bigger spending cuts. Choose.
+1
People need to learn to live within their means.
Davie
I'd rather tax go on something that is an option like tobacco (no-one needs it) instead of me going to work.
If I didn't buy fuel for a week then for the last 4 days of it neither me nor the missus would be going to work, thus all those "lets not
buy fuel on a tuesday" campaigns would be laugable if they didn't come up all the time.
Why don't we overload public transport? How would that work? You think anyone gives a toss if we're crammed on buses so tight we can't
breathe (bear in mind sheep have more rights to comfort in transit than we do)? You think your boss won't fire you for being late every day with
a "sorry there aren't enough buses"? As much as I kinda like the idea we're essentially giving them what they want. Also what
about people who don't work in the right time? I can't get a bus to work because they don't run then, missus can't as car use is
part of her contract...
Our car is the size it is because a) I used to be a taxi driver and b) two of our children are adult size. Iirc I also worked out that because the car
is finance clear we'd have to average about -75mpg (yes minus) to be worth the payments.
Overall I don't know what can be done (apart from vote for me!) but as soon as that Nissan Leaf comes out (2013) or the Renault one (still
pestering for a date on that one) I shall be seriously considering an upgrade from what will then be a mondeo with 150k on the clock
Surely it's up to the Government to balance these things out. What's the point in having sky high fuel duty if it's having an adverse
effect on the rest of the economy thereby reducing the tax the government raise from that. If the fuel duty went high enough it could potentially
collapse the economy, nobody would have a job (or therefore pay tax), wouldn't be be able to afford to drive (so no fuel duty then), QED fuel
duty at 10 quid a litre and the government is actually getting b*gger all in tax or duty. Killing the fatted calf and all that.
The problem is they've always seen fuel duty as a bottomless pit, it isn't and there are consequences for milking it too much.
[Edited on 8/5/11 by norfolkluego]
just another daft thought......
how about a national job swap scheme ?
find someone doing the same job as you, but nearer to home for both.
wouldn't work for everyone, but what about starting with teachers ?
If teachers didn't drive to work, and all pupils went to the local school
the roads would be empty (just like school holidays !!) + Massive saving in fuel 
would be like a pay rise as well as no need for all that fuel......
Lol ...... Hardly any protesters turned up, the go slow didn't have enough protesters to slow the traffic LMAO :
quote:
Originally posted by woodster
Lol ...... Hardly any protesters turned up, the go slow didn't have enough protesters to slow the traffic LMAO :
Thats exactly why we get the P taken out of us all the time!
Need to take a lesson from the French......
The French protest the way they do because of their weird employment laws, don't encourage them to have extra protests because we 'The British Tax Payer' often end up out of pocket because after turning over a 2CV the next thing they do is close the Channel.
quote:
Originally posted by morcus
The French protest the way they do because of their weird employment laws,
quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
Thats exactly why we get the P taken out of us all the time!
Need to take a lesson from the French......
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
Thats exactly why we get the P taken out of us all the time!
Need to take a lesson from the French......
No it's because we believe in fairy tales...............
Once upon a time in a land not so far away there was a labour who government promised who promised that all the people of Britain could have everything that our hearts desired. They promised that everyone would be well paid, that taxes would be low, public services would be good and house prices would increase for ever. They would make all this possible with a magical new invention called "credit".
And we all lived happily ever after.
I'm hearin ya daviep!
i cant believe that no one has commented on moorrons commute yet! 55miles at 15mpg is madness, surely a loan on a new car would be covered in no time out of you fuel savings? Thats about £25 each way, which you could easily halve or even third.
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
i cant believe that no one has commented on moorrons commute yet! 55miles at 15mpg is madness, surely a loan on a new car would be covered in no time out of you fuel savings? Thats about £25 each way, which you could easily halve or even third.
my wife uses a cherokee, which doubles as the family car. That is bad enough at 24mpg on average. 15mpg is well into the fun car category, but not
what you want for a commute. One certainly cant moan about consumption though, as the choice of car has had more affect on expense than the rise in
the price of the fuel itself.
Im hoping to swap my van for a turbo'd estate, and i wont be moaning about fuel costs. If i was bothered, i would get a diesel.
high fuel prices is the only way the driving habits and buying habits, will ever change in this country. not to mention contribute to meeting our emissions targets. some relief for haulage and transport business surely makes sense though, as the knock on effect is to make our food and other commodities dearer, thus driving inflation.
quote:
Originally posted by mrwibble
high fuel prices is the only way the driving habits and buying habits, will ever change in this country.
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
quote:
Originally posted by mrwibble
high fuel prices is the only way the driving habits and buying habits, will ever change in this country.
Find me ten people who have quit smoking because it's too expensive (I admit an extra tenner a week is nice but it wasn't my deciding factor) and find me ten people who have stopped drinking because the price is constantly rising.
Now in the event you have, find me ten people who have quit their jobs because it was getting too expensive to get there (changing jobs doesn't count you still have to get there)
High fuel prices just mean everything costs more...
Like I mentioned before at the moment any cost of finance is going to outweigh any fuel savings, however that's not the main part of my complaint
with fuel prices.
Anything that moves, from growing the crops to shifting them to asda, from fitting the power lines to maintaining them, it all uses fuel in the
transport. That cost has tripled since I started driving in 1997, and do you think every company has just taken that hit?
My complaint is that it costs more to get to work/maintain the vehicle I use (there using a pushbike is covered)
Oh and if you think of getting the bus/train what do they run on?
All the food prices will go up as it costs more to get it to the shop
Delivery will cost more
Cooking your food will cost more as it costs more for the gas man to do his thing.
Do note though this isn't just a rant at fuel prices, it's a rant at our dependency on them. Honda have been running a hydrogen powered car
for years, but ONLY if you're in Calafornia (thanks a bunch )
Peugeot Ion, out since autumn 2010 according to their website, but the "local dealer" knows nothing about them
Nissan Leaf, comes out here in 2013 (but is available in US, Japan and somewhere else I can't remember offhand)
We need these alternatives, but "tomorrow" isn't enough I'm afraid
what ever way you cut it, the bottom line is we need to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. Higher costs are inevitable as supplies dwindle, tax merely brings forward this pressure to find alternatives. Hydrogen cars are not a solution anyway. Humanity needs a reliable supply of energy, one that isnt dependant on OPEC, that doesnt contribute to climate change, and that isnt running out!
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Like I mentioned before at the moment any cost of finance is going to outweigh any fuel savings, however that's not the main part of my complaint with fuel prices.
Anything that moves, from growing the crops to shifting them to asda, from fitting the power lines to maintaining them, it all uses fuel in the transport. That cost has tripled since I started driving in 1997, and do you think every company has just taken that hit?
My complaint is that it costs more to get to work/maintain the vehicle I use (there using a pushbike is covered)
Oh and if you think of getting the bus/train what do they run on?
All the food prices will go up as it costs more to get it to the shop
Delivery will cost more
Cooking your food will cost more as it costs more for the gas man to do his thing.
Do note though this isn't just a rant at fuel prices, it's a rant at our dependency on them. Honda have been running a hydrogen powered car for years, but ONLY if you're in Calafornia (thanks a bunch
Peugeot Ion, out since autumn 2010 according to their website, but the "local dealer" knows nothing about them
Nissan Leaf, comes out here in 2013 (but is available in US, Japan and somewhere else I can't remember offhand)
We need these alternatives, but "tomorrow" isn't enough I'm afraid
cheers for noticing lads, its a range rover classic with a tuned V8 so not the best for MPG, Problem i have is i stick with what i have until it falls
apart and after buying this RR 5 years ago its still got lots of life in it yet, I bought it right out so it owes me nothing and if it was worth
nothing then i would either strip it for the V8 for a Kitcar or take it offroad to destroy it the mans way.
But you live to your means and after having this 15MPG for so long ive got use to it. I dont smoke or spend lots of money on much else (no kids, GF is
low cost) so it goes on my hobbies. I have done some calcs and its not worth getting a loan to replace it when i still want it and to be honest there
is only a few cars that i like which arnt much better, TVR cerbs and such.
What makes me ok with this are the facts that im contracting at the moment so get 45p/mile claimed off my wage (@20% this is about 10p per mile) which
helps and also i can if i really needed to change and get much cheaper running costs which many people cant do. Also the GF is looking at a new car
and i get given her trusty Ford Puma which would help me out soon.
The RR did do alot of hard work 3 years ago but rarely gets to pull or carry much anymore until i build a trailer for track days.
Im over the moon to see 230 miles for £85 worth of fuel when i was getting 190 miles locally around town a few months back.
The main thing it has done is stop me popiing out for window shopping, so i now dont end up buying cr@P i dont really need. Its saved me here but the
knock on effect to those shops must be bad not having me spend £50 a month with them and the pub meal when im out and such.
quote:
Originally posted by Moorron
cheers for noticing lads, its a range rover classic with a tuned V8 so not the best for MPG, Problem i have is i stick with what i have until it falls apart and after buying this RR 5 years ago its still got lots of life in it yet,
I can't be arsed to read th whole thread as it's late and I've had a tough day at work (met Phil Tuffers though!) but here's my
suggestion......sorry if it's already been mentioned!
If everyone took notice of how much fuel is in their area and only bought it from the cheapest, the other places would have to drop the prices or sell
no fuel. Job done.
quote:
Originally posted by owelly
I can't be arsed to read th whole thread as it's late and I've had a tough day at work (met Phil Tuffers though!) but here's my suggestion......sorry if it's already been mentioned!
If everyone took notice of how much fuel is in their area and only bought it from the cheapest, the other places would have to drop the prices or sell no fuel. Job done.
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
Hydrogen cars are not a solution anyway. Humanity needs a reliable supply of energy, one that isnt dependant on OPEC, that doesnt contribute to climate change, and that isnt running out!
Damn, beaten to it.
I'm amazed that it took so long for someone to point out that Hydrogen is the most common element in the entire universe and technically almost
everything else is made of Hydrogen from nuclear fusion. Hydrogen isn't the whole story but I think it's the future, it will be a long time
before people get over 'Range Anxiety' of pure electric cars and you've still got to 'make' the Hydrogen which I believe is
normally done by electrolysis (I remember being taught of machines that did it by chemical reactions with metals to fill up Zeplins but I think
it's not a common method now).
Iceland has a surplus of electricity from Geothermal sourses so it takes no fuel per se and the country is surrounded by water. Hydrogen would likely
be easier to export than 'leccy and if your producing it with clean power it would actually be running clean emissions of just water, which it
was in the first place. Also the main by product would be pure oxygen which would itself be valueable.
hydrogen atoms might be common as muck but hydrogen molecules arent. If you are making hydrogen molecules by hydrolysis of water, then it isnt an energy source, its just a method of storing and moving energy. Icelands geothermal or hydroelectric suppies arent going to underwriite the whole venture!
how many of you remember the oil crisis of the 70's,... yes only 25 years left, and then we'll all run out!
The current wisdom is that there is only 25 years worth of oil left, infact that has always been the projected life of all of there reserves,
it's just we use more and find more.
It is obvious that it is finite, and it is clear that it is not the best solution, however it will NOT run out in your life time or mine, the current
reserves are greater than all the oil that has ever been extracted,..
Good clean technology is sensible, but then so are many other things, not burning lots of electricity to heat/cool our work spaces and shops, growing
our own food, walking to work, having fewer humans on the planet, not drinking alcohol, not smoking, not having massive server halls to run the
internet,... the list goes on,...
In reality there has to be a massive shift in behaviour, and the human race is not well known for being benevolent, we are in general driven to
survive, consume, and procreate.
steps off soap box,...
quote:
In reality there has to be a massive shift in behaviour, and the human race is not well known for being benevolent, we are in general driven to survive, consume, and procreate.
Noooooooo.,
can you imagine the protests, strikes, wars......
people having to do things for themselves !!
most of us on here would survive quite well if we had to MAKE or REPAIR things
but how would all those people who can only use a microwave for coooking,
can't fit a plug, don't know how to grow anything etc etc manage ????
sounds like mad max
add the rising water...Waterworld
Real problem is government plc lab con lib all the same country is very badly run waste everywhere gov would not last 5 mins in comercial world why cant we employ some comercial managers to do proper job then tax would be less or a least well spent
quote:
Originally posted by ali f27
Real problem is government plc lab con lib all the same country is very badly run waste everywhere gov would not last 5 mins in comercial world why cant we employ some comercial managers to do proper job then tax would be less or a least well spent
quote:
Steve Jobs gives employees a little speech when they're promoted to Vice President at Apple, according to Adam Lashinsky in a new article in Fortune that's not online yet. Lashinsky calls it the "Difference Between the Janitor and the Vice President."
Jobs tells the VP that if the garbage in his office is not being emptied regularly for some reason, he would ask the janitor what the problem is. The janitor could reasonably respond by saying, "Well, the lock on the door was changed, and I couldn't get a key." An irritation for Jobs, for an understandable excuse for why the janitor couldn't do his job.
As a janitor, he's allowed to have excuses. "When you're the janitor, reasons matter," Jobs tells newly minted VPs, according to Lashinsky. "Somewhere between the janitor and the CEO, reasons stop mattering," says Jobs, adding, that Rubicon is "crossed when you become a VP." In other words, you have no excuse for failure. You are now responsible for any mistakes that happen, and it doesn't matter what you say.
behind them 100%
the government are robbing us blind and using the excuse of paying back national debt to do it, when really theyre spending it so that people can live
off the state. ( i know not everyone does, but i know more people that are scamming it than not)
if fuel prices were lower, more businesses would be able to produce stuff that we could sell abroad in order to bring some money IN to the country.
which is what we need to do to pay off the national debt otherwise were just sloshing water in a bucket.
quote:
Originally posted by A1
behind them 100%
the government are robbing us blind and using the excuse of paying back national debt to do it, when really theyre spending it so that people can live off the state. ( i know not everyone does, but i know more people that are scamming it than not)
if fuel prices were lower, more businesses would be able to produce stuff that we could sell abroad in order to bring some money IN to the country. which is what we need to do to pay off the national debt otherwise were just sloshing water in a bucket.
quote:
Originally posted by mrwibble
quote:
Originally posted by A1
behind them 100%
the government are robbing us blind and using the excuse of paying back national debt to do it, when really theyre spending it so that people can live off the state. ( i know not everyone does, but i know more people that are scamming it than not)
if fuel prices were lower, more businesses would be able to produce stuff that we could sell abroad in order to bring some money IN to the country. which is what we need to do to pay off the national debt otherwise were just sloshing water in a bucket.
hmm but i think its not the current governments fault for the benefit culture that has taken root in this country... and its the current government which are trying to tackle benefit claim abuse and get them into work...
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
quote:
Originally posted by mrwibble
quote:
Originally posted by A1
behind them 100%
the government are robbing us blind and using the excuse of paying back national debt to do it, when really theyre spending it so that people can live off the state. ( i know not everyone does, but i know more people that are scamming it than not)
if fuel prices were lower, more businesses would be able to produce stuff that we could sell abroad in order to bring some money IN to the country. which is what we need to do to pay off the national debt otherwise were just sloshing water in a bucket.
hmm but i think its not the current governments fault for the benefit culture that has taken root in this country... and its the current government which are trying to tackle benefit claim abuse and get them into work...
But if there were jobs for these people to go into because more businesse would be able to produce stuff because fuel prices were lower then they wouldn't need high fuel prices to pay for the sick, lame and lazy (and unlucky!) who live off the government
i take the approach that if someone is to be paid by the government, they may as well be paid to do something. Id start with picking up rubbish as it
needs no skills and makes a pleasant difference to messy areas.
Benefit system does need massive overhaul but you cannot realistically yank the rug from under people, as there arent actually jobs for them anyway.
Needs to be a progressive but constant and determined change.
how about starting by getting low cost housing built.
Like the old council houses. All the people on benefit
in expensive private lets could be given one. Builders
would have jobs, gov't would save on housing benefit.
Be a bit like after the 2nd world war (so I'm told )
good call george, social housing sets me off on a rant on a good day.
People pay council tax to subsidise the building and maintainance of houses, which are rented out cheap, then sold cheap to the lucky few who can blag
it, whilst most people try to do it themselves, and end up paying loads more for their own house, whilst still subsidising the, lets be honest,
scroungers who didnt fancy paying full market rent themselves. And now theres barely any council houses left, we have to all turn our pockets out to
build more to give away again.
What a polava.
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
hydrogen atoms might be common as muck but hydrogen molecules arent. If you are making hydrogen molecules by hydrolysis of water, then it isnt an energy source, its just a method of storing and moving energy. Icelands geothermal or hydroelectric suppies arent going to underwriite the whole venture!
quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
hydrogen atoms might be common as muck but hydrogen molecules arent. If you are making hydrogen molecules by hydrolysis of water, then it isnt an energy source, its just a method of storing and moving energy. Icelands geothermal or hydroelectric suppies arent going to underwriite the whole venture!
True, but it is the future fuel for cars unless someone invents a battery far in advance of anything that we have now and those batteries would still have to get their electricity from the same sources as the Hydrogen. Fuel cell technology was good enough to put men on the Moon over 40 years ago, it'll get me to work and back. The technology is well proven.
[Edited on 10/5/11 by norfolkluego]
The Honda FXC was advertised as having a home filling station, there weren't many details given but it looked like electolysis powered by solar and wind. They still need mass pestering to stop screwing around with only having them in Calafornia and start raking in the money worldwide by actually doing something with them
I'd like to make it clear that I understand that A, the method of Hydrogen power I suggested is essentially a battery system and B that I
don't realistically think Iceland could power the world.
Hydrogen fuel cells seem to be a better method of energy transfer as with the right infostructure it as easy to fill up as petrol. It also appears to
be what some major car makers are working on at the moment and like I said it's as clean as Electric power. How we generate than power is another
issue.
To go back to the original topic though, none of this governments policy was secret, it was all out in the open. If you don't like it you've
left it abit late and should have done something before the last election (And before we have any coalition nonsense, the Conservatives won more seats
than anyone else, and a LabDem Coalition would have been a minority Government even if you don't count the Sinn Fein Seats as they don't
take the oath so don't vote in the house.)
I've just been looking at a new company car. As far as I can see, the one I was looking at (together with a fuel card) is going to be costing me around £6k a year in tax whether I put fuel in or not. There are no hybrids etc apart from the Lexus's (Lexii?) out there in the class of car I'm looking at.
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Quinn
I've just been looking at a new company car. As far as I can see, the one I was looking at (together with a fuel card) is going to be costing me around £6k a year in tax whether I put fuel in or not. There are no hybrids etc apart from the Lexus's (Lexii?) out there in the class of car I'm looking at.
I did say that it was for the car and fuel card. The car itself will cost about £3.8k and the fuel card costs £2k. It's a £36k car with a 26% charge based on CO2 and I'll be paying tax on it at 40%