Afternoon all,

The wife and I have 3 kids having planned for 2, but encountered twins the 2nd time around. As I say we planned to have 2 kids and that meant we bought a 3 bedroom semi. With 5 of us now and 3 beds our 2 boys (8 and 10) are sharing a room. As they get bigger and more independent sharing a room is becoming somewhat of a nightmare for us and for them.

We've looked at the cost of moving house, but the jump from a 3 to 4 bed house isn't possible for us. As chance would have it we have an integral garage in the house. This has lead us to consider converting the garage to achieve a 4th bed (others in our street have already done so).

Having a "man space" for tools and currently for bikes etc has been very nice, but I don't really see that we have too many options left, but to convert. To that end we had a builder round last week to measure up, advise and give us a quote.

My question to you lot is has anyone else done this and what were the pros and cons?

Fair to say I'm apprehensive and more than a little sad, but life goes on as they say

Got any land down the side, access to the back to put a garage up?

Not done it myself but a couple of thoughts -

Insulation is probably the key and making sure the garage existing walls have a damp course. if it is flat roof then insulation in the roof may be a challenge.
Assuming the garage is single skin then insulation, batten and plaster is the easiest but use the best insulation you can (celotex ?). This will also take the least amount of the size of the room.
Levelling out the floor to match the ground floor of the house without loosing too much head room may be a challenge. levelling the floor gives the opportunity to put insulation into the floor.
Moving / re-routing radiators can be tricky.

If you have room down the side for a lean to or wooden construction this would help with the storage.

Good luck with the project.

Already considered options (including a loft conversion), but we have a footpath down one side and our neighbours attached to the other side. As above we seem to have little choice left, but the relative luxury of the integral garage, which keeps costs down and feasibility up.

Aye, is it built in flush or does it stick out half and half like the ones round here?

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Originally posted by Ugg10
Not done it myself but a couple of thoughts -

Insulation is probably the key and making sure the garage existing walls have a damp course. if it is flat roof then insulation in the roof may be a challenge.
Assuming the garage is single skin then insulation, batten and plaster is the easiest but use the best insulation you can (celotex ?). This will also take the least amount of the size of the room.
Levelling out the floor to match the ground floor of the house without loosing too much head room may be a challenge. levelling the floor gives the opportunity to put insulation into the floor.
Moving / re-routing radiators can be tricky.

If you have room down the side for a lean to or wooden construction this would help with the storage.

Good luck with the project.

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Originally posted by coozer
Aye, is it built in flush or does it stick out half and half like the ones round here?

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Did the same to our current house.

It was pretty straight forward. The insulation requirements are very high now. On all the exterior walls we ended up with 100mm celotex and 70mm under the floors, along with 150mm rockwool in the roof. It does however make it a very cosy room and we could have fitted a tiny radiator. Our exterior walls were already double skinned and damp coursed. You do end up with a slightly narrow room however fine for a kid. We have a double bed in ours for our oldest boy and it's tight.

My Mrs works in the trade so all materials were sourced at trade prices. I got a bricky to build the wall, plasterer to skim and a sparky to do the final commissioning. The rest I did my self. We came in at just shy of 5k all in. This included an expensive timber window to match the house. Also we needed a building warrant and architects drawings which took up 400 quid of the budget.

This was a saving of 3-5k on builders quotes. However it took over my life for a few weeks and was glad when it was all done.

We had to do it as like you the cost of a 4 bed house in our school catchment was unaffordable and luckily I had space on the other side of the house to build a garage. After completion we had a valuation done as we were changing mortgage and were told we had increase the value of the house by 10 to 15k which wasn't bad for a 5k investment.

Any other info you need give me a shout.

Steve

My take on this would be .........

Pick your favourite child, and keep them
Foster out the remaining two children

The for's out way the against's

you keep the garage, as a man cave, you get a free bedroom, to make into an internal man cave, just like I have
you save money, as two children don't live there anymore

The against's
Wife might not be two pleased
two children may hate you for life !

obviously the above is banter, but how about a loft conversion, to at least make a room bigger enough for the kids to use, as bedrooms, are really only for sleeping in ?

or do as my Daughter does, 3 bed house, 1 adult 1 VI and 4 kids
16yr old in large bedroom, 6yr old in small bedroom, twin boys (2) in her old bedroom,
her and the village idiot sleep in the lounge on a pull out bed

steve

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Originally posted by nick205

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Originally posted by Ugg10
We're also considering leaving the up/over garage door in place and having a storage area at the front of the garage. The idea being that we'll have some bike and tool storage space.

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We have this and is a priceless space to keep my bike tools etc. Its a mini man cave which makes working on the car easy whilst not having the luxury of a garage.

However ive had enough and am now moving as its cheaper to move than have the extent of work done to customise the house to our needs. The house is perfect, but just not for us.

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nick205 - 31/8/16 at 02:42 PM

Thanks all.

Some good points to consider.

We've looked at moving areas, but we have family around who help with the kids and the kids are all in good local schools too.


ETA...Our roof is a very shallow pitch and full of timber trusses + there's nowhere to put an extra flight of stairs. A loft conversion isn't really an option, reinforced by the fact no neighbours have gone down that road.

[Edited on 31/8/16 by nick205]

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Mash - 31/8/16 at 02:55 PM

Cost will be significantly more(depending on how much you do yourself) and you'll need planning permission as well, but.....

...build up above the garage, get a bedroom and shower room on the same floor as the other bedrooms, keep the garage?

You might need to get the neighbour on side if the garage is the attached bit, otherwise you're laughing.

If you were thinking of moving, then you can probably weigh the cost of moving against what it would cost you, plus you will have an increase in value afterwards.

I'm building up above a single storey room on the side of my house at present, and although it's only 6 feet wide, it goes the full depth of the house, and I'm gaining two en-suites above.

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nick205 - 31/8/16 at 03:02 PM

Sadly the garage shares the pitched roof with the neighbours garage and the garage door end of it is single story. To do as you describe was an option discussed, but the cost, building complexity and shared roof with the neighbours make it unfeasible for us + nobody else has done it either.

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morcus - 31/8/16 at 06:23 PM

I grew up in a house with something like you are proposing and it worked well (Though our house was three stories with the garage under another bedroom). We kept the door and enough space to open it. My Dad and Grandad put in what was technically a temporary block wall.

My brother had that as his bedroom for about 12 years and my dad used his dads sheds for normal garage stuff.

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snapper - 31/8/16 at 06:52 PM

My solution will not be great help to you as garage was attached to the side but bear with me
Partner moved in with 3 kids, I have 1 this turned a reasonable 3 bed detached into a multiple occupancy dormitory
Demolish garage build up, 4 beds, should have done 5 but downstairs extra room is multiple use
The resulting lack of man cave even with a small workshop on the side resulted in drastic measures.
A fellow builder looked at renting a low barn off local farm, result, 3 blokes split the rent, room for 10 cars, £70 each per month plus £15 a quarter for electricity
We now need more room as its full

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motorcycle_mayhem - 31/8/16 at 07:16 PM

I did it the other way, I bought a house where the integral garage had been turned into a 'bedsit' bedroom. I stripped the whole lot out to get the garage back, finding a lovely inspection pit in the process. The conversion job had been done thusly:

There was a raised floor above the garage floor, i.e. supporting beams and (green) chipboard flooring. Walls had battens screwed into them, with plasterboard over and fibre glass under. To the rear, a shower-room and sink unit.
7' Door had been replaced with a wooden frame construction, topped with a double glazed unit from about half way up. Fire door off the kitchen (the access), with a rear door by the shower 'room'. Conversion was really 'nice' it worked well, beautifully warm (only one small panel heater) so I guess the construction was sound and the sort of thing you should be doing.

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ReMan - 31/8/16 at 08:09 PM

For me, (dignity aside . ) if you can do it without it ever looking like it was a garage then go ahead.
Remove the up and over is a good start!

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Humbug - 31/8/16 at 09:23 PM

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Originally posted by Jeano

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Originally posted by nick205

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Originally posted by Ugg10
We're also considering leaving the up/over garage door in place and having a storage area at the front of the garage. The idea being that we'll have some bike and tool storage space.

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We have this and is a priceless space to keep my bike tools etc. Its a mini man cave which makes working on the car easy whilst not having the luxury of a garage.

However ive had enough and am now moving as its cheaper to move than have the extent of work done to customise the house to our needs. The house is perfect, but just not for us.

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My brother did this and it's very useful unless you've got other decent and accessible tool/bike storage

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Bluemoon - 1/9/16 at 06:42 AM

You could post the floor planes some might come up with an idea you have not had yet, might save the man cave...

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nick205 - 1/9/16 at 08:49 AM

Humbug - thanks for the feedback. Neighbours in our street have done it this way and said they have the benefit of an extra room and keeping some storage space. To some it may seem odd, but with precious little access to the back garden there's not really another way around it.

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907 - 1/9/16 at 10:05 AM

I have thought of a garage conversion.

We hardly use the dining room and a third garage would be so handy.

Mmmm, MX5 V6.

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nick205 - 1/9/16 at 11:04 AM

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Originally posted by 907
I have thought of a garage conversion.

We hardly use the dining room and a third garage would be so handy.

Mmmm, MX5 V6.

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Given the option I'd like a detached 6 bed house with 4 garages a workshop a pool and a sweeping driveway with separate in/out entrances.

Back in my world converting the 1 garage we have into a bedroom is what I'm left with

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steve m - 1/9/16 at 11:50 AM

I would like a 4 car garage with a bedroom on top,
ive yet to see a place like this advertised


steve

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907 - 1/9/16 at 01:21 PM

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Originally posted by nick205

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Given the option I'd like a detached 6 bed house with 4 garages

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Surely that's a typo and should read, "4 bed house with 6 garages."

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02GF74 - 1/9/16 at 06:53 PM

Bedrooms like hot desks where the boy move around, every month or so. You sgare bedroon with missus so why cant day.

10 yr old with own bedroom, shheesh

When i was 10 i shared a bedroom with 5 others in cardboard box in tmiddle of road.

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cliftyhanger - 2/9/16 at 06:03 AM

Are you going to get building regs? if so you will have top follow their spec. However, I for one would not cast any stones over just getting on with it.

One thing I would suggest, and partly depends if you are worried about noise from the neighbours garage, would be to use soundboard for the party wall.
Also on the rear wall, assuming this will be the only one that is an external wall, maybe a waterproofing slurry. In fact, that can be used on the party wall if there is no damp proof course. It is easy enough to apply yourself, and remember builders will usually tell you things (eg damp proofing etc) will be fine/never had an issue, but YOU decide how you want it done. Better to put in the extra now rather than remedial work later.

Personally, I would build a 4x2 stud framework attached to the walls with galvanised brackets. Carefully stuff that with cellotex. Then a vapour barrier, then an inch of cellotex and board over the whole lot. Roof, I think current regs is 300mm of rockwool......But all that takes up space, but a total of 3" of cellotex insulation would probably be workable. You should need less against your house wall, but remember it will still be cold from the exposed part above teh roof.

Do your research on vapour barriers, ventilation and so on. That is important, and many builders are not conversant (neither am I, but BIL, a RICS surveyor, explains stuff to me which I always forget!)

And don't be afraid to ask difficult questions of the builder, and more important don't let him fob you off with lame excuses.

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stevebubs - 2/9/16 at 08:54 AM

Have you talked to the neighbours to see if they would be amenable to building above their garage also? Doing a joint project would bring benefits to both of you, and also bring costs down...

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nick205 - 5/9/16 at 09:31 AM

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Originally posted by 907

quote:

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Originally posted by nick205

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Given the option I'd like a detached 6 bed house with 4 garages

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Surely that's a typo and should read, "4 bed house with 6 garages."

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G'day everybody.

What a fascinating topic! Of significant interest, because so many "integral" garages round my way (Birmingham suburbia) have been rendered into an extra room.

I noted all the references to various regulations concerning insulation and brickwork, and pondered just how many of these local garage conversions would meet the planning/building regs. In my (ahem) "humble opinion", very few. I've seen several where the householder simply bought in a load of bricks & blocks, bricked up the doorway, and lined the garage with plasterboard. Simples!!

Who's gonna ask questions?

You can I suppose do what you please but in the case of an insurance claim or if you move then you are screwed.

I've done battle with the council twice now in the past 2 years for converting the garage and then building another garage and to be honest it wasn't too bad and I now have all the legit certs and know its done to the correct standards. Especially as we too put a child in the converted garage, well I say child, he's now 20 but still has the mental age of a 6 year old sometimes.

However I also had to deal with scottish water with the new garage build and that was a nightmare. Totally incompetent and unreasonable. If I had to do it again I'd just crack on with it and plead ignorance.

could one of the bedrooms be divided into 2 - bunk bed so that space below it can be used - or just too small?

Dig down and have a subterranean garage/workshop with a lift to bring the car up to ground level.

An estate agent has valued the house and commented that they are trying to sell the same house in an adjacent street. The owner has converted the garage without building regs and the agent is having some trouble selling it. I want ours done properly with the correct paperwork/certificates etc. to ease insurance and possible future sale of the house. The builder estimating is a family friend who has already done some good work for us and i trust his guidance.

Insulation seems to be the biggest point and will be taken care of. The up and over garage door will stay on the front so the front view of the house will remain unchanged. All other garage walls already have a DPC present and any internal walls would have the same included.

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Originally posted by 02GF74
could one of the bedrooms be divided into 2 - bunk bed so that space below it can be used - or just too small?

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10yr old? surely old enough to fend for themselves by now?

A photo of your house and floor plans would be handy so people can give you advice on what you have rather than what they think you might have.
Building above the garage on yours and the neighbours house would be the best option.
Or even building on yours and joining the pitched roof of theirs into your new wall? (a photo would help here)

The boys already have bunk beds in their shared room and TBH the room isn't big enough to divide in some way. The issue SWMBO and I foresee is the older (larger) they get the less space they'll have. They currently shared a chest of drawers and have a small desk each. With their own rooms space becomes less of an issue and so will the disagreements between them. The loss of garage bothers me and not them really - once converted it's unlikely to ever go back to being a garage.

[Edited on 22/9/16 by nick205]