probablyleon
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 11:33 AM |
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Emissions and Q plates
Just starting to think about MOT ing my R1 Fury. I was considering the distinct possibility that I'm going to need to stick a temporary engine
map on and pull the side pod and exhaust off to put the cat in. I was discussing this last night with a friend, who's job, until six years ago,
was testing MOT stations, he said if it's on a Q plate, for emissions purposes they are to be considered as vehicles first used before 1st
August 1975. I googled it this morning and found mention of this on the Lotus 7 club site
<http://7faq.com/owbase/ow.asp?EmissionsAndTheMOT_Test#h3>. Does anyone on here know if this is still correct?
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rodgling
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 11:42 AM |
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It's not true, but there are plenty of MOT places who believe it to be true, which is good enough...
Edit: I'm no longer sure after reading the comments below and checking the MOT manual...
But the bottom line is you can probably get it tested as visible smoke only.
[Edited on 8/3/12 by rodgling]
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blakep82
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 11:51 AM |
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your v5 should have the limits printed on it i think, or at least it should come up on the MOT stations computer when they put the reg number in.
thats what they should test it against, but as said, many think its still on a visible smoke test, which is nice
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IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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loggyboy
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 11:58 AM |
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Q plates are visable smoke only for MOT
Its been discussed to death on here. its at the very front of the MoT manual, not in the emmisions section.
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pewe
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 11:59 AM |
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Q plates can only be tested for visual emissions (ie smoke) on start up.
Anyone who tells you different is telling porkies and/or doesn't know their job.
If you want chapter and verse it's in the MOT tester's handbook but in the Introduction section.
Ask me how I know!!!!
HTH and if not U2U me.
Cheers, Pewe10
You know it must be true if Loggyboy ^^ and I are both telling you that. 
vv I can't tell you that in the terminology I've just typed and deleted but suffice to say there are some less than competent MOT testers
out there.
Sits back and waits for the onslaught!
[Edited on 8/3/12 by pewe]
[Edited on 8/3/12 by pewe]
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 12:00 PM |
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How do you know?
I had to ask he he he
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blakep82
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 12:18 PM |
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3. Vehicle "first used" dates- application of test criteria
NT's will normally be provided with the vehicle details as part of the Vehicle Specific Information supplied by the MOT database. This will
usually Include the vehicle's 'first used' date. Where this information Is available, the NT should only use Reasons for Rejections
applicable to the vehicle's age.
However, In cases where this Information Is not available or incorrect, the NT should determine the vehicle's 'first used' date
as follows;
a. Its date of manufacture, If the vehicle was originally used without being
registered in QB (e.g., an Imported vehicle or ex-HM Forces vehicle),
or
b. Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to
be treated as being first used on 1 January 1971, or
c. In any other case, the earlier of either
hmm, thats not how i read it... i read that as Q plates will only be treated as pre 71, only if the date of first use is not on the database, and if
it is, then its tested as per the date of first use. and the limits will be as per the dat eof first use
thats taken from here http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual/contents.htm
but yes it has been discussed to death on here, and if i remember right, the outcome is usually that Q plates are not always visible smoke tests
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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loggyboy
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 12:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
hmm, thats not how i read it... i read that as Q plates will only be treated as pre 71, only if the date of first use is not on the database, and if
it is, then its tested as per the date of first use. and the limits will be as per the dat eof first use
I would assume (and happy to be corrected) that it will be impossible for a kit car to be in the database as no manufacturer will have submited
details to the database!?
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blakep82
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 12:52 PM |
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thought that was all part of taking engine numbers etc at DVLA for registration. I'm sure the emisisons limits are taken from the engine fitted
and engine age, which is then put on the V5 and the database, which i assume isn't done by the manufacturer as you rightly say, but by the DVLA
when your car is registered on their system, with information you supply on the engine you have fitted.
so, i read it as the limits should be quoted on the V5 and database, but only DVLA haven't messed up at registration, which as we know, they
NEVER make a mistake 
when you say that kit car manufacturers wouldn't have submitted the details, remember you can call your car anything you like on the forms, call
it a loggyboy 2000 if you wanted, you supply engine numbers etc, YOU are the manufacturer
[Edited on 8/3/12 by blakep82]
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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deezee
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 01:09 PM |
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I've been through this numerous times and the kitcar magazines have tried to clear this up as well. The Q plate visual emissions lark
information is over 10 years out of date and sadly the myth is kept living on this very forum.
VOSA sort out the emissions during the SVA/IVA. This goes onto the database and is used for your MOT test.
The DVLA issue your license plates, Q plate or otherwise and have no say on emissions. They are totally separate.
Your local MOT tester may or may not know his job and might (luckily for some) just put the car through the visual test, as thats what he's done
for years and never bothered learning the current rules.
The old Q reg vehicles, which were licensed before the SVA, have visual smoke tests as these never went into the database.
Please stop telling people its visual check only. Your vehicle goes into the Database the day of the SVA / IVA.
[Edited on 8/3/12 by deezee]
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russbost
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 01:09 PM |
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Been discussed loads of time b4
see Here
But to emphasise the point once again
From the current online testers manual which is accessable by every MOT station in the land
"Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be treated as being first used on 1 January 1971"
That mean for emissions visible smoke only.
It is in the section "How to use this manual" - section 3b
Link
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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deezee
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 01:21 PM |
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Come on, be fair, show the whole statement
quote:
NT's will normally be provided with the vehicle details as part of the Vehicle Specific Information supplied by the MOT database.
This will usually Include the vehicle's 'first used' date. Where this information Is available, the NT should only use Reasons for
Rejections applicable to the vehicle's age.
a. Its date of manufacture, If the vehicle was originally used without being
registered in QB (e.g., an Imported vehicle or ex-HM Forces vehicle),
or
b. Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to
be treated as being first used on 1 January 1971, or
c. In any other case, the earlier of either
. Its date of first registration, or
. The date six months after It was manufactured.
So to clarify, the 1st Jan 1971 rule is applied if the vehicle isn't in the database and has no registration date. Otherwise if the vehicle
went through the SVA or IVA, your on the database and subject to an emissions test set out in your SVA / IVA test.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 01:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
loggyboy 2000
I want a car called this! lol
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russbost
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 01:53 PM |
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But the whole reason for issuing a Q plate, according to the DVLA, is that the vehicle is of indeterminate date, you can't then have a first
used date on the database for it, because which bit was first used then????
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 02:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by russbost
But the whole reason for issuing a Q plate, according to the DVLA, is that the vehicle is of indeterminate date, you can't then have a first
used date on the database for it, because which bit was first used then????
In the case of a kit car that goes through SVA/IVA then whilst the vehicle components are of an indeterminate date, clearly the vehicle as an
entity will have a very definite "first used" date.
The confusion over this is propagated by MOT testers (and kit owners) who aren't aware of the rules. The emissions data entered by the DVLA at
the time of registration (irrespective of Q plate) should be presented to the tester when the enter the reg. number into their machine.
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pewe
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 02:27 PM |
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OK so mine went through SVA and was given a Q plate.
How come there are no emission figures shown on the Reg doc. even though SVA tested and recorded them?
Also emission figures are shown on the reg docs of mass manufactured vehicles and it is not down to the current owner to provide those figures?
Cheers, Pewe10
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russbost
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 02:28 PM |
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This came up with VOSA at a recent MOT testers refresher course & they stated quite clearly that ANY vehicle with a Q plate should be treated as
pre '71, it was actually on the test paper - you can't get nearer the horses mouth than that!
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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gunman
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 02:59 PM |
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What about kit cars which took the registration of the donor? My car was registered 2001 but has the F plate registration from a Sierra??? Is it
tested as a 2001 car or a 1988 car?
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loggyboy
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 03:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gunman
What about kit cars which took the registration of the donor? My car was registered 2001 but has the F plate registration from a Sierra??? Is it
tested as a 2001 car or a 1988 car?
Should have emmisions shown on your V5
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russbost
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 03:31 PM |
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& will be tested according to the age of the engine
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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JeffHs
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 03:46 PM |
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Mine was SVAd & registered in 2008. The engine is a 78 but date of manufacture is shown as 2008. SVA registered emissions but V5 has no emissions
data. My MoT tester always tests the emissions but doesn't record them, says it doesn't matter because it's on a Q.
I was worried at the last MoT because I'd just fitted twin 40s and hadn't got them sorted - still passed with no problem
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deezee
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 04:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by russbost
This came up with VOSA at a recent MOT testers refresher course & they stated quite clearly that ANY vehicle with a Q plate should be treated as
pre '71, it was actually on the test paper - you can't get nearer the horses mouth than that!
That does sound pretty conclusive then! Well what's stopping people just applying for a Q plate and removing the Cat etc after IVA? I thought
that was the point of the IVA emissions going onto the database.
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probablyleon
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 05:03 PM |
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That's fantastic news... I hope. Thanks for the responses. I love this forum and its wealth of knowledge. This leads me to another question. Why
do people seem to prefer age related plates? This particular issue presents a very tangible reason to opt for a Q over an age related plate,
especially in the case of BECs where emissions might well be a problem.
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russbost
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| posted on 9/3/12 at 08:21 AM |
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As amanufacturer anything we submit has to be CAT tested whatever age the engine is - it's the main difference between the manufacturers test
& the ordinary one, so we prefer to have an age related on the car, but for an amateur build of something like a Locost I don't understand
why people apply a stigma to the Q plate.
& the situation described above with a '78 engine but much later build date is exactly why Q's are tested as pre'71 vehicles
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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tony-devon
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| posted on 9/3/12 at 09:42 AM |
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if your really concerned, then take a wheel off and try to blag it as a trike no emissions test LOL
although its very simple and clear
section 7.3 of the manual states that
Q plated vehicles are to be treated as being first used before 1 August 1975 for emissions purposes.
in cases where this information is not available or incorrect, the NT should determine the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date as follows: a. Its date of
manufacture, if the vehicle was originally used without being registered in GB (e.g., an imported vehicle or ex-HM Forces vehicle), or b. Vehicles
having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be treated as follows: For emission purposes only, all these types are to be considered
as vehicles first used before 1 August 1975. For all other testing purposes they are to be considered as being first used on 1 January 1971, or c. In
any other case, the earlier of either: · Its date of first registration, or · The date six months after it was manufactured
[Edited on 9/3/12 by tony-devon]
heavy is good, heavy is reliable, and if it breaks, hit them with it
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