woodster
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| posted on 8/5/11 at 07:43 PM |
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Lol ...... Hardly any protesters turned up, the go slow didn't have enough protesters to slow the traffic LMAO :
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 8/5/11 at 07:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by woodster
Lol ...... Hardly any protesters turned up, the go slow didn't have enough protesters to slow the traffic LMAO :
Is this the Stanlow one or have there been others today?
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Surrey Dave
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| posted on 8/5/11 at 11:09 PM |
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...........
Thats exactly why we get the P taken out of us all the time!
Need to take a lesson from the French......
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morcus
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| posted on 8/5/11 at 11:46 PM |
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The French protest the way they do because of their weird employment laws, don't encourage them to have extra protests because we 'The
British Tax Payer' often end up out of pocket because after turning over a 2CV the next thing they do is close the Channel.
In a White Room, With Black Curtains, By the Station.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 8/5/11 at 11:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by morcus
The French protest the way they do because of their weird employment laws,
Tell us more please
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daviep
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 08:36 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
Thats exactly why we get the P taken out of us all the time!
Need to take a lesson from the French......
No it's because we believe in fairy tales...............
Once upon a time in a land not so far away there was a labour who government promised who promised that all the people of Britain could have
everything that our hearts desired. They promised that everyone would be well paid, that taxes would be low, public services would be good and house
prices would increase for ever. They would make all this possible with a magical new invention called "credit".
And we all lived happily ever after.
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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nick205
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 08:54 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daviep
quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
Thats exactly why we get the P taken out of us all the time!
Need to take a lesson from the French......
No it's because we believe in fairy tales...............
Once upon a time in a land not so far away there was a labour who government promised who promised that all the people of Britain could have
everything that our hearts desired. They promised that everyone would be well paid, that taxes would be low, public services would be good and house
prices would increase for ever. They would make all this possible with a magical new invention called "credit".
And we all lived happily ever after.
That's about the size of it.
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scootz
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 11:16 AM |
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I'm hearin ya daviep!
It's Evolution Baby!
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JoelP
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 01:25 PM |
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i cant believe that no one has commented on moorrons commute yet! 55miles at 15mpg is madness, surely a loan on a new car would be covered in no time
out of you fuel savings? Thats about £25 each way, which you could easily halve or even third.
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craig1410
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 01:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
i cant believe that no one has commented on moorrons commute yet! 55miles at 15mpg is madness, surely a loan on a new car would be covered in no time
out of you fuel savings? Thats about £25 each way, which you could easily halve or even third.
Ha ha, I'm glad you picked up on this - at the time I thought it was a wind-up, perhaps even trying to bait me after my comments on swapping
28MPG Cupra for the 58MPG Aygo but maybe he was serious! I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume that the vehicle is of a specialist
nature, perhaps required for towing boats or something.
Craig.
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JoelP
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 01:48 PM |
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my wife uses a cherokee, which doubles as the family car. That is bad enough at 24mpg on average. 15mpg is well into the fun car category, but not
what you want for a commute. One certainly cant moan about consumption though, as the choice of car has had more affect on expense than the rise in
the price of the fuel itself.
Im hoping to swap my van for a turbo'd estate, and i wont be moaning about fuel costs. If i was bothered, i would get a diesel.
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mrwibble
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 02:44 PM |
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high fuel prices is the only way the driving habits and buying habits, will ever change in this country. not to mention contribute to meeting our
emissions targets. some relief for haulage and transport business surely makes sense though, as the knock on effect is to make our food and other
commodities dearer, thus driving inflation.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 04:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mrwibble
high fuel prices is the only way the driving habits and buying habits, will ever change in this country.
Find me ten people who have quit smoking because it's too expensive (I admit an extra tenner a week is nice but it wasn't my deciding
factor) and find me ten people who have stopped drinking because the price is constantly rising.
Now in the event you have, find me ten people who have quit their jobs because it was getting too expensive to get there (changing jobs doesn't
count you still have to get there)
High fuel prices just mean everything costs more...
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craig1410
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 05:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
quote:
Originally posted by mrwibble
high fuel prices is the only way the driving habits and buying habits, will ever change in this country.
Find me ten people who have quit smoking because it's too expensive (I admit an extra tenner a week is nice but it wasn't my deciding
factor) and find me ten people who have stopped drinking because the price is constantly rising.
Now in the event you have, find me ten people who have quit their jobs because it was getting too expensive to get there (changing jobs doesn't
count you still have to get there)
High fuel prices just mean everything costs more...
I don't agree, people DO alter their LEVELS of consumption according to what they can afford. I wouldn't expect someone to quit working
because the commute was expensive but they might look for alternatives such as car sharing, public transport, a more fuel efficient car or even just
lower speeds and more efficient driving habits.
Been there, done it!
What many people don't realise is that depreciation is usually a higher motoring cost than petrol with residual 3 year values varying between
30% and 60%. I was lucky that my Cupra was around the 56% mark at 3 years so even when I sold it at 4 years it still fetched £9k against the £8k Aygo.
I bought the Cupra at 2 years old for £14000 from a main dealer so lost £5k in two years (£2.5k per year). The Aygo is worth £4700 according to
Parkers.co.uk so is 59% residual at 3 years which is pretty good too. £3k depr. in 3 years is only £1k per year.
Of course depreciation isn't seen by most people as a real cost but this is only the case if you never sell or otherwise dispose of your car.
The more it's worth when you sell it, the less finance or cash you need to spend on the next car. I would strongly recommend to anyone
struggling with motoring costs to educate themselves about the true sources of cost for motorists. Fuel is by no means the whole story. For low
mileages you'd be better off with an older car even if it is less efficient because depreciation will be near zero.
For higher mileages, even if you already have a car, it may still be more economical to sell that car and buy a new or nearly new one which has low
depreciation and good economy, ideally with cheaper insurance and road tax. It all depends how much you REALLY want to save money or if you are just
moaning about fuel costs for the sake of it.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 05:27 PM |
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Like I mentioned before at the moment any cost of finance is going to outweigh any fuel savings, however that's not the main part of my
complaint with fuel prices.
Anything that moves, from growing the crops to shifting them to asda, from fitting the power lines to maintaining them, it all uses fuel in the
transport. That cost has tripled since I started driving in 1997, and do you think every company has just taken that hit?
My complaint is that it costs more to get to work/maintain the vehicle I use (there using a pushbike is covered)
Oh and if you think of getting the bus/train what do they run on?
All the food prices will go up as it costs more to get it to the shop
Delivery will cost more
Cooking your food will cost more as it costs more for the gas man to do his thing.
Do note though this isn't just a rant at fuel prices, it's a rant at our dependency on them. Honda have been running a hydrogen powered
car for years, but ONLY if you're in Calafornia (thanks a bunch  )
Peugeot Ion, out since autumn 2010 according to their website, but the "local dealer" knows nothing about them
Nissan Leaf, comes out here in 2013 (but is available in US, Japan and somewhere else I can't remember offhand)
We need these alternatives, but "tomorrow" isn't enough I'm afraid
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JoelP
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 05:38 PM |
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what ever way you cut it, the bottom line is we need to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. Higher costs are inevitable as supplies dwindle, tax
merely brings forward this pressure to find alternatives. Hydrogen cars are not a solution anyway. Humanity needs a reliable supply of energy, one
that isnt dependant on OPEC, that doesnt contribute to climate change, and that isnt running out!
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craig1410
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 06:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Like I mentioned before at the moment any cost of finance is going to outweigh any fuel savings, however that's not the main part of my
complaint with fuel prices.
Anything that moves, from growing the crops to shifting them to asda, from fitting the power lines to maintaining them, it all uses fuel in the
transport. That cost has tripled since I started driving in 1997, and do you think every company has just taken that hit?
My complaint is that it costs more to get to work/maintain the vehicle I use (there using a pushbike is covered)
Oh and if you think of getting the bus/train what do they run on?
All the food prices will go up as it costs more to get it to the shop
Delivery will cost more
Cooking your food will cost more as it costs more for the gas man to do his thing.
Do note though this isn't just a rant at fuel prices, it's a rant at our dependency on them. Honda have been running a hydrogen powered
car for years, but ONLY if you're in Calafornia (thanks a bunch )
Peugeot Ion, out since autumn 2010 according to their website, but the "local dealer" knows nothing about them
Nissan Leaf, comes out here in 2013 (but is available in US, Japan and somewhere else I can't remember offhand)
We need these alternatives, but "tomorrow" isn't enough I'm afraid
Just to clarify your point about finance costs, it IS possible to buy a new car, trade in an older car and save money as I have demonstrated.
Fuel cost in 1997 was 61.7p per litre according to ukpia.com and at that time oil was $18 per barrel. Oil is now almost 6 times higher than it was
back then and petrol is 2.21 times what it was then, not triple, although it will continue to rise in price as there is only so much of it available
for us to burn. Wages have risen since 1997 with average wages at around 56% higher than they were in 1997 so the picture isn't quite so bad as
you make out. We should bear in mind that events in the middle east are at least partly to blame and if the middle east embraces democracy then it
should be worth a temporary blip in oil prices in my opinion.
I get your point about fuel costs driving other costs so we should buy local produce, try to make sure our buses and trains are full, work from home
if possible and use flexitime to avoid busy travel times. What we need to avoid more than anything else though is having cars driving about with 1
person in them and getting 15MPG.
There are solutions to pretty much every situation if you are motivated to look for them.
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Moorron
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 06:09 PM |
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cheers for noticing lads, its a range rover classic with a tuned V8 so not the best for MPG, Problem i have is i stick with what i have until it falls
apart and after buying this RR 5 years ago its still got lots of life in it yet, I bought it right out so it owes me nothing and if it was worth
nothing then i would either strip it for the V8 for a Kitcar or take it offroad to destroy it the mans way.
But you live to your means and after having this 15MPG for so long ive got use to it. I dont smoke or spend lots of money on much else (no kids, GF is
low cost) so it goes on my hobbies. I have done some calcs and its not worth getting a loan to replace it when i still want it and to be honest there
is only a few cars that i like which arnt much better, TVR cerbs and such.
What makes me ok with this are the facts that im contracting at the moment so get 45p/mile claimed off my wage (@20% this is about 10p per mile) which
helps and also i can if i really needed to change and get much cheaper running costs which many people cant do. Also the GF is looking at a new car
and i get given her trusty Ford Puma which would help me out soon.
The RR did do alot of hard work 3 years ago but rarely gets to pull or carry much anymore until i build a trailer for track days.
Im over the moon to see 230 miles for £85 worth of fuel when i was getting 190 miles locally around town a few months back.
The main thing it has done is stop me popiing out for window shopping, so i now dont end up buying cr@P i dont really need. Its saved me here but the
knock on effect to those shops must be bad not having me spend £50 a month with them and the pub meal when im out and such.
Sorry about my spelling, im an engineer and only work in numbers.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 09:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Moorron
cheers for noticing lads, its a range rover classic with a tuned V8 so not the best for MPG, Problem i have is i stick with what i have until it falls
apart and after buying this RR 5 years ago its still got lots of life in it yet,
Considered LPG?
Ok so petrol has gone up 2.5x, and minimum wage has gone from £3 to £6 (well just under)
To be fair my fuel cost isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things, missus does about 200 miles a week and I'll do about 60-70 (in
total) so we're looking at about 3/4 of a tank, £60 a week ish.
Insurance is somewhere in the region of £5-600 (can't remember right now) so I'm not convinced that would go down much, and if we're
downgrading (remember the 6foot tall kids) it'd be most likely from Mondeo to something Focus sized. I'm going to give this a proper
look-up and see what comes of it, but we have no finance to pay on the car now...
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owelly
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 10:08 PM |
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I can't be arsed to read th whole thread as it's late and I've had a tough day at work (met Phil Tuffers though!) but here's
my suggestion......sorry if it's already been mentioned!
If everyone took notice of how much fuel is in their area and only bought it from the cheapest, the other places would have to drop the prices or sell
no fuel. Job done.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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craig1410
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 10:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by owelly
I can't be arsed to read th whole thread as it's late and I've had a tough day at work (met Phil Tuffers though!) but here's
my suggestion......sorry if it's already been mentioned!
If everyone took notice of how much fuel is in their area and only bought it from the cheapest, the other places would have to drop the prices or sell
no fuel. Job done.
I think you underestimate the power of market forces which will tend to raise prices for anything which is in high demand. Also the fact that there
will be more than one fuel station who will be equal cheapest within, say, a 5 mile radius.
The only way to lower prices in the long term is to find unexpected oil reserves to make fuel supply less of a long term problem, OR reduce demand.
Price is proportional to demand divided by supply. You can't change the laws of economics through wishful thinking!
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 9/5/11 at 11:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
Hydrogen cars are not a solution anyway. Humanity needs a reliable supply of energy, one that isnt dependant on OPEC, that doesnt contribute to
climate change, and that isnt running out!
That'll be Hydrogen then, the most abundant element in the Universe!
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morcus
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| posted on 10/5/11 at 01:35 AM |
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Damn, beaten to it.
I'm amazed that it took so long for someone to point out that Hydrogen is the most common element in the entire universe and technically almost
everything else is made of Hydrogen from nuclear fusion. Hydrogen isn't the whole story but I think it's the future, it will be a long
time before people get over 'Range Anxiety' of pure electric cars and you've still got to 'make' the Hydrogen which I
believe is normally done by electrolysis (I remember being taught of machines that did it by chemical reactions with metals to fill up Zeplins but I
think it's not a common method now).
Iceland has a surplus of electricity from Geothermal sourses so it takes no fuel per se and the country is surrounded by water. Hydrogen would likely
be easier to export than 'leccy and if your producing it with clean power it would actually be running clean emissions of just water, which it
was in the first place. Also the main by product would be pure oxygen which would itself be valueable.
In a White Room, With Black Curtains, By the Station.
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JoelP
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| posted on 10/5/11 at 06:25 AM |
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hydrogen atoms might be common as muck but hydrogen molecules arent. If you are making hydrogen molecules by hydrolysis of water, then it isnt an
energy source, its just a method of storing and moving energy. Icelands geothermal or hydroelectric suppies arent going to underwriite the whole
venture!
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HowardB
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| posted on 10/5/11 at 07:03 AM |
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how many of you remember the oil crisis of the 70's,... yes only 25 years left, and then we'll all run out!
The current wisdom is that there is only 25 years worth of oil left, infact that has always been the projected life of all of there reserves,
it's just we use more and find more.
It is obvious that it is finite, and it is clear that it is not the best solution, however it will NOT run out in your life time or mine, the current
reserves are greater than all the oil that has ever been extracted,..
Good clean technology is sensible, but then so are many other things, not burning lots of electricity to heat/cool our work spaces and shops, growing
our own food, walking to work, having fewer humans on the planet, not drinking alcohol, not smoking, not having massive server halls to run the
internet,... the list goes on,...
In reality there has to be a massive shift in behaviour, and the human race is not well known for being benevolent, we are in general driven to
survive, consume, and procreate.
steps off soap box,...
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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