hughpinder
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| posted on 3/3/11 at 10:10 AM |
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wheeling machine anvils
I was thinking of knocking up a ehrrling machine, but buying the anvils from here:
http://www.justinbaker.co.uk/pdf/EW10000Anvils.pdf
Does this set of 3 anvils look ok for the bodywork of a 7, or do I need a bigger range of curves- if so what will I actually use?
Thanks for any input
Hugh
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JeffHs
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| posted on 3/3/11 at 12:35 PM |
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Oh I am tempted by them. I'm keen on making a wheeling machine too for a future project. (Guzzi-engined mod to my 2cv special with bodywork I
can be proud of, unlike the shed it is at the moment!) Of course, you don't need a wheeling machine at all to make a 7 unless you're
going to make your own arches, clamshells, nose cone etc out of ali.
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907
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| posted on 3/3/11 at 01:01 PM |
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They look OK to me. Three will be enough to get you going.
Apparently the important thing is the blow.
They should be a rad, then a straight, then another rad;
as opposed to one continuous rad with a flat machined on afterwards, if you get my drift.
What's the price of them?
I made my own. Pics in "wheel" folder in my photo archive.
Cheers,
Paul G
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2cv
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| posted on 3/3/11 at 01:35 PM |
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It really pleases me to see the interest in metal shaping among our Forum members. It really is very satisfying (although sometimes very frustrating)
to form a double curvature panel from a flat sheet.
For anyone just starting on this road, I would recommend purchasing from Frosts Ron Fournier's complete collection of DVDs covering everything
from making bucks and patterns, blocking and smoothing, gas welding and the use of tools. They are well worth the investment and will get you started
on the right road.
One word of caution however: the English wheel can only stretch and smooth. It is not a magic tool that once you possess it you can make anything. You
can very seldom make a piece using just one operation. You may need to shrink areas as well as stretch and in many cases, for reasons of size or
shape, you will have to weld pieces together. Gas welding is the traditional method because the weld is ductile and the area around the weld is fully
annealed making further working easy without any risk of cracking.
To speed the wheeling process some shape can be put in using a blocking hammer and a shot bag. The English wheel can then be used for smoothing.
So, in conclusion, I'd recommend in addition to the DVDs, a shrinker and a course on gas welding. With these basics you will be well on the way
to making panels.
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hughpinder
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| posted on 3/3/11 at 01:38 PM |
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The 3 lower wheel set is £79 - add £80 for the 150dia*70 top wheel (mounts included)
The 5 lower wheel set is 169 - add 100 for the 200*70 top wheel (mounts included).
The linked file shows the size of the blow on each wheel.
I was planning on just the lower wheels as I have a 160 dia steel upper I can use (it will need a grind/polish though)
Regards
Hugh
ETA thanks 2cv - I have one of the Ron fourier DVD, on using hand tools, but it doesnt include the wheeling machine.
[Edited on 3/3/11 by hughpinder]
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andyd
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| posted on 3/3/11 at 07:21 PM |
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I've just got David Gardiner's Metal Shaping DVD - £37 all in. He shows how to make compound curved panels without a wheel. He makes it
look easy but he has been doing similar for 30 years 
A wheel would be good but for the money you're quoting would a sand bag and tools be a better bet?
Andy
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2cv
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| posted on 3/3/11 at 08:49 PM |
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Quote: A wheel would be good but for the money you're quoting would a sand bag and tools be a better bet?
A very good point Andy. David Gardiner shows just what can be done using only hand tools and achieves some fairly incredible results. I particularly
like the use of a bit of railway line that he uses as a dolly. The wheeling machine as I mentioned earlier can only stretch and smooth and stretching
can be achieved much more quickly using a slapper or bossing mallet and a shot bag. Shape can also be quickly put in by hammering against a tree stump
with a slightly concave face. Where a shrink is needed this can be done by putting in tucks with a simple homemade tool.
In most cases, machines are labour saving which is important if you are doing it for a living but excellent results are possible without having to
spend a great deal of money. All of the bonnet parts I made (in the Tools and Techniques section) were acomplished using only hand tools.
The key to success in my opinion is to practise and practise. Try hammering out some shapes and then smoothing out the dents using a slapper and
dolly. These are the basic skills that are needed. Next, why not have a go at making a pair of cycle wings? There's a lot of help out there in
terms of instructional videos and books but they can only go so far. I believe the best way to learn after having soaked up all they can offer is to
have a go yourself and see what works for you.
[Edited on 3/3/11 by 2cv]
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hughpinder
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| posted on 4/3/11 at 08:21 AM |
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Interesting discussion so far. I have a set of dollies and hammers so I'm ok there. I was under the impression that you bashed the shape out
with the hammer/stump or sandbag, smoothed a bit with dollies and then the wheeling machine came in as its was enormously quicker for
smoothing/finishing? I also thought the wheeling machine would be better for the long/lightly curved panels.
Just a question - all the shrinking machines I've seen seem to work on or near the edges of a panel - if you over stretch it in the centre of
(say) a bonnet, do you just chuck it in the bin?
I will post up some photos tonight of what I am planning to do as I have a rough plaster model of more or less what I intend. Its mostly lightly
curved compound panels.
I also have only a DC inverter - should I just pay someone to do the aly welding for the small amount I need, or is there a way of getting the kit
that doesn't involve several hundred quid for a oxy/acetylene kit+bottles or an AC tig?
Regards
Hugh
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2cv
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| posted on 4/3/11 at 08:44 AM |
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Hugh, I think you are right on all counts. The wheeling machine is excellent for smoothing both in terms of finish and also speed. However if a
wheeling machine isn't available, with a degree of skill a slapper and dolly will do just a good a job.
In his DVD, Ron Fournier only uses the wheeling machine for smoothing. He puts the shape in on a shot bag first. There are a number of purists who say
the only way to produce a compound curve is with a wheeling machine because a hammer induces stresses and damages the material. The Italians, however,
never had a wheeling machine and used only hammers. So, it comes down to your early training as to which route you favour.
If you end up with too much crown and you are unable to shrink in the centre, you can wheel the edges to stretch there which will reduce the crown.
William Lees (Skinpins) Linky do a deep thoat shrinker/stretcher which I believe is cheaper or at least no more expensive than the one sold by
Frosts.
I look forward to seeing your pictures.
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907
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| posted on 4/3/11 at 09:13 AM |
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Hi All.
Loads of people seem interested in E wheels but few build one and "have a go"
and I wonder if it's because they think that using one is some sort of black art, and having
spent time and money they would fail miserably when it came to using it. Not so IMHO.
A while ago a fellow builder called in on a social visit and as we stood talking his eyes came to rest
on my wheel. "Fancy a go" I said?
"Oooooo no. I couldn't do that."
"Why not"?
"I'm no sheet metal worker" he said.
So I found an old bit of scratched up ally from the scrap bin, marked a free hand oval on it with a felt tip,
and pushed him in front of the wheel. "Go on. Have a go. Backwards and forwards keeping within the oval."
Well the first five minutes were spent getting the hang of direction. When moving the sheet at the end of
a stroke it then went the opposite way to what his brain thought it would. He soon sorted that one out.
After wheeling the whole area a slight shape was starting to form. Half a turn up on the kick wheel adjuster
and repeat the process. Turn the sheet 90 deg and smooth out the lines. A bit more pressure, another turn,
and he was hooked.
The look on his face was priceless. I don't think he could believe what he was doing.
20 minutes later we took it out and the pic shows the result.
OK, a few stray wheel marks where he strayed over the felt tip line, but I think it's brilliant for a first go.
( To save any embarrassment I promise I won't tell who did this Geoff. )
Cheers,
Paul G
edit to add pic.
 
First go
[Edited on 4/3/11 by 907]
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wilkingj
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| posted on 4/3/11 at 12:16 PM |
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Oi!!!! I thought I was more than just a Fellow Builder!
Its all about knowing the technique. ie which way to push n pull, and how to have the right wheel installed etc etc.
Its a learnable skill.
I probably couldnt do it by hand with a hammer and sandbag. Well Maybe, I could, but I would have to take years to make what an expert can do in 10
minutes! The Wheeling machine was worth trying.
Still.... I WAS amazed that I could actually do it and get a reasonable result first time.
But then again, the Tutor was a good one. My welding has also improved substantially after being tutored by this same expert
All Hail to the knowing and skilled 907!
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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907
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| posted on 4/3/11 at 01:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
Oi!!!! I thought I was more than just a Fellow Builder!
O, you are Geoff, but I didn't want to give the game away. 
Paul G
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wilkingj
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| posted on 4/3/11 at 09:46 PM |
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1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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tony-devon
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| posted on 4/3/11 at 11:00 PM |
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same sort of topic but slightly off (its bodywork), if anyone is interested in lead filling, then I can thouroughly recomend the DVD's by a US
guy
Steve Frisbie, excellent bloke, did some work for him last year, some one off custom angel eyes for a car hes doing.
learnt a lot from his DVD's
heavy is good, heavy is reliable, and if it breaks, hit them with it
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