McLannahan
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| posted on 27/5/14 at 07:40 PM |
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Tiling a kitchen floor?
Evening LCB massive...
I'm slowly trying to enhance our house and a major bone of contention has been the kitchen floor. It's originally ceramic type tiles but
on top of this is a thin screed and on top of this cheap nasty stick on vinyl tiles. These tiles are starting to lift and are very worn in some areas
such as in front of the sink.
I would like a tiled floor and not more vinyl (tiles or sheet) as we're bound to mark it/rip it in some way and my wife would like it to
"look clean". I do understand this as it does seem that most vinyl have pores and the dirt does seem to get engrained into it?
Anyway - What are the cheap options to tiling it? Is it a DIY'able task or best left to the professionals? I simply don't have the budget
to get someone in - at least not at the 1k that two people quoted?
Kitchen is approx. 4m x 4m (actual room size and going under units)
Does anyone have any top tips/suggestions to keep costs down?
Thanks everyone
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garyo
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| posted on 27/5/14 at 07:50 PM |
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I went from tiles to tile effect lino and haven't looked back. Much quieter, warmer, softer on the foot, and some people even think we still
have tiles.
The tiles were difficult to keep clean because the grout discoloured in the high traffic areas. Dropping something meant it smashed than bounces. They
were cold in winter, and it was noisy.
I dare say it won't last as long as the tiles that are still underneath it, but then I can re-lay it for £150. Laying is a bit of a pain
because to do a neat job we've put it under the plinths, skirting boards, etc. We don't struggle keeping it clean - quite the opposite
compared to the tiles.
Gary
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dan8400
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| posted on 27/5/14 at 07:51 PM |
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Not saying this is the right answer but I would remove the kitchen units (not as hard as you think to do) then take a bolster and hammer and remove
all the tiles down to concrete floor and start again.
In the long run it will pay dividends. Sounds like the previous 'cheap fix' has unravelled itself.
After you have tiled you could refresh the kitchen with new doors and worktops (but you can keep the casings).
Hope this helps
Thanks
Dan
Hey - That's Journey!!!
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mookaloid
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| posted on 27/5/14 at 08:26 PM |
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I thought long and hard about this and given the difficulty of getting the tiles perfectly flat along with the cost I decided to go with a good
quality laminate floor.
something like this maybe? Quickstep
laminate
everyone that sees it is amazed that it isn't tiles.
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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big_wasa
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| posted on 27/5/14 at 08:27 PM |
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Doing this at the moment and taking old tiles up sucks 
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unijacko67
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| posted on 27/5/14 at 08:31 PM |
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Just be aware of over tiling as you are in effect lowering the worktop height. Not a problem for functionality, but insure you still have arround
870mm as a rule from finished floor to the underside of the worktops as I have seen quite a few integrated appliances tiled in situ with no way of
getting them back out. Some Neff integrated dishwashers are 860mm tall so it will depend on what if any integrated appliances you have. Most washing
machines are around 850mm tall so not so bad.
http://www.kittenkitcar.co.uk
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will121
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| posted on 27/5/14 at 08:39 PM |
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/cnvvoadcn2dp9nc/2014-05-26%2021.46.40.jpgHaving just changed the whole kitchen and tiled floor in a similar sizealso
consider the disturbance, I took up the ceramic tiles, hire a small sds breaker and wide chissle not hammer and chissel as will need to get adhesive
up too,
Cost me
Sds hire £40
Porcelain tiles £25/m
Latex £40
Adhesive £60
Grout £25
Tile cutter £40
Sealer/cleaner £30
Tools £20
Total about £600 but time about 4days of hassle as tried to do it part time while still using kitchen eg take half at a time prepare half, level half,
lay half, grout half. It was hard work but proud of finished job. Also don't forget dust everywhere through house!
if doing whole kitchen then doing hole floor worth it, if just making it look good with floor and doors then overlaying with a sheet material a good
option
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cnvvoadcn2dp9nc/2014-05-26%2021.46.40.jpg
[Edited on 27/5/14 by will121]
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 27/5/14 at 08:44 PM |
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I tiled our kitchen floor about ten years ago having never done any floor tiling before, I had to level the floor before starting using self levelling
compound ,worked out the best way to lay them and just got on with it. If you do decide to tile get hold of a diamond tile cutting machine although I
used a scribe type machine for straight cuts . Didn't find it difficult although I had no units fitted at the time
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mark chandler
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| posted on 27/5/14 at 08:51 PM |
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Done this twice before now, first time I tiled to the cupboards which is a big mistake, second time cleared the kitchen and tiled wall to wall.
Second mistake first time, pale tiles and grout, as in walkways the grout quickly darkens, second time slate effect tiles and dark grout which is much
better.
Make sure you install under heating wires, the floor is then lovely to walk upon and warms the room nicely, this needs to extend to the kick boards
and walls, do not skimp and just put a small one in the middle. I found the reel of wire rather than preformed Matt to be better as you can match
shapes easily.
With care you can make a great job, make sure the adhesive is evenly spread as a slightly raised tile will be noticeable.
Regards Mark
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JoelP
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| posted on 27/5/14 at 08:51 PM |
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What is the floor made of underneath the existing covering? Concrete or wood?
Myself id agree with the comments about tiles being hard, cold and generally unforgiving. A quality laminate is easy to lay and much easier to live
with, and if looked after it will last add long as tiles.
The fitter I use charges £22 per metre to lay, but the finish is flawless.
[Edited on 27/5/14 by JoelP]
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Mr C
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| posted on 27/5/14 at 09:10 PM |
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As previaously mentioned lift up the old tiles/floor I bought a cheap breaker to do the job makes a difficult task a little easier. Use levelling
compound to make good. As mentioned I would also tile the Kitchen "bare" so any future changes in layout or appliances, the floor will be
intact.
If you can, get hold of a wet bed cutter, a bit slower than the scribbers but more accurate as the scribing type cutters are not that brilliant on
floor tiles. Prep is the key along with accurate measuring out to get your starting point. Don't go too fancy on the pattern to try and keep
cutting simple. I went herringbone on the slant with a border running round the units, took forever and a day and nearly lost the will to live. Keep
it nice and simple and get the finish right.
All the best with it, look forward to seeing the completed job.
Girl walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre, so the barman gave her one
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McLannahan
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| posted on 27/5/14 at 09:20 PM |
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Thanks everyone, excellent advice and suggestions as always!
I had thought about laminate, and to be quite honest...it's the option I'd prefer! However I can't seem to find a reasonably priced
laminate that looks like a tile! Some lovely ones out there but not so lovely prices....
I should of added to my original post that this house isn't a long term house but I'd envisage we'd be here for at least another 18
months? Much as though I don't want to just botch a solution I really don't want to throw serious money and time at something that we
wouldn't get enough use out of.
Joel - I'd guess concrete? It's a 1980's extension but fairly substantial and well made. I did have the soil pipe moved in the loo
next door and that was concrete...very thick concrete...
To be honest I'd try and find the money for a good fitter at £22, I don't think that's too bad? At about 16sqm I don't think
£350 fitting sounds that bad? Assuming I could source the flooring and bits for £150 ish?! But.....I'm nowhere near Leeds! 
>>>>>
Mark - Thanks for that. It's a fair call of my wife's really (sorry - sounds a bit sexist) but how easy it is to clean is a massive
factor. I think whatever I'd do it'd be a dark grout for exactly that reason!
>>>>>
Rusty - I "think" there's a self levelling compound of some sort down already? If the light strikes the floor in the right way
though you can make out the shape of the tiles underneath the vinyl tiles and underneath the screed under them!!
>>>>>
Will - Massive job then?! Hoof...I know if I lived on my own I'd have no qualms about making the mess and noise but I think the wife would have
very differing views... Good value though, that's less than I thought?
>>>>>
Jack - Really good point that, thank you. I do stand a chance of having five floors (original concrete, tiles, screed, vinyl and then the new floor!)
if I add yet another without removing something!!
>>>>>
BigW - I'm really not looking forward to this one but feel it'll help transform the house...probably yours too!
>>>>>
Mook - I'm leaning towards this I think? Did you use this and how much did it cost for yours?
>>>>>
Dan - I think with the fact that we don't intend to be here long term this may be a step too far - at least for me!  I do intend to
"join" the kitchen into the study too in a later operation and I'm going to try and get similar units for in there. Hopefully I can
get something that looks like it matches?
>>>>>
Gary - This was my original suggestion to Wife, but she's not keen. We did get vinyl in the loo recently and to be honest it is more difficult
to clean that I thought? I really don't have much money at the moment and this is by far the cheapest option so it keeps drawing me back!?
Thanks all again!
[Edited on 27/5/14 by McLannahan]
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mookaloid
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| posted on 27/5/14 at 10:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by McLannahan
>>>>>
Mook - I'm leaning towards this I think? Did you use this and how much did it cost for yours?
>>>>>
I managed to get some for about £20 per sq metre including foam vapor barrier underlay. you do need a good flat base so it doesn't
'bounce' Rip up the old tiles then use some self levelling compound if required. Tools - hard point saw, tape measure pencil and possibly
a jigsaw if you have tricky bits to go round.
Definitely a DIY job and looks spot on when finished.
The quickstep stuff is about the best quality. you can look at samples in a local carpet shop then compare prices on line.
having said all that, if you are only staying 18 months then just get some vinyl, slap it down and move on.............
good luck
[Edited on 27/5/14 by mookaloid]
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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JC
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| posted on 27/5/14 at 10:24 PM |
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Did this a few years ago.
SDS hammer drill and angled chisel bit - got old tiles up a treat, had to be careful not to take up the concrete floor too!!!!
Tiles laid - lots of patience. Use a long strip of wood as a guide for the first run of tiles. The plastic crosses work well to keep them all
aligned.
Finished the job at 11 PM, only to notice the grout was shrinking, so was up til 3 am regrouting.
Since then, had builders around saying it looks professional - if I can do it, you can!!!
Only regret was that I couldn't fit under tile heating - didn't want differing floor levels at door junctions!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 28/5/14 at 07:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by McLannahan
I should of added to my original post that this house isn't a long term house but I'd envisage we'd be here for at least another 18
months? Much as though I don't want to just botch a solution I really don't want to throw serious money and time at something that we
wouldn't get enough use out of.
we've just done our kitchen with vinyl sheet last year - a nice dark slate tile effect one (there are some really nice ones available now)
so far its proved really tough and doesn't show much dirt either
we are still planning to redo the whole kitchen and maybe even extend it so went for vinyl to tidy it up in the mean time and keep the cost down (£12
/m² ) also the guys had it fitted in about 1 hour too
but its actually turned out really nice and much warmer on bare feet in the middle of the night 
we also painted the units white and got some fake walnut worktop from ikea (2.4m for £35 )
all this is really just a prototype for the kitchen we really want which we were planning to have tiled, but now I think we'll stick to vinyl or
maybe laminate for the final version
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whitestu
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| posted on 28/5/14 at 08:27 AM |
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I've had vinyl and laminate and would only ever go for decent porcelain tiles now. They are just so much more robust.
Drop a knife on your vinyl and you'll have a hole in it. Laminate can chip. With good porcelain tiles you could drop a hammer on them and
you'd probably be OK. Even if they do chip they are the same colour throughout so you don't notice it.
Mine were put down after the kitchen had gone in which wasn't ideal but what the builders were trying to charge for tiling the floor, and the
fact that we needed the kitchen usable meant we had no choice.
I used tilebacker board on the wood part of our floor and screeded the concrete bit to level it.
It cost be about £600 to do a 6x3m kitchen
Stu
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SteveWallace
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| posted on 28/5/14 at 10:29 AM |
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I tiled mine a couple of years ago. The floor was concrete and not particularly level, but I found that I could still lay the tiles flat by using a
spirit level and squishing them down a bit into the tile adhesive.
I didn't want to take the units out as there is pretty much only one layout that works for our kitchen so I knew that I wouldn't have a
problem if I changed the units later, but I did take the kick boards off so that I could partially slot the tiles under the units. All that was
required then was to trim the top edges of the kick boards so that they would fit again.
Also, hire an electric ceramic tile saw, you can cut in one direction easily with a hand tile cutter (the type that has a built in scribe and looks
like a paper cutting guillotine), but its virtually impossible to cut floor tiles into L-shapes with one to go around door frames etc. With an
electric tile saw, its a doddle. If you want to save money then do all of the straight edge and whole tiles first and then you should be able to do
the awkward shapes in a couple of hours so a half/ one day or overnight hire.
Finally, you can get rattle cans of grout sealant which is supposed to stop it discolouring. Ours worked for a while, but the grout is now becoming
discoloured. Best thing to do is to use as dark a grout that meets with your aesthetic demands.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 28/5/14 at 10:59 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SteveWallace
Finally, you can get rattle cans of grout sealant which is supposed to stop it discolouring. Ours worked for a while, but the grout is now becoming
discoloured. Best thing to do is to use as dark a grout that meets with your aesthetic demands.
forget the rattle cans - get some of this stuff:
http://www.lithofin.co.uk/en-gb/__i/Lithofin-KF-Grout-Protector
once the grout is clean and dry you just sponge it on, wait a wee while and clean of any residue on the tiles (you may need to do a few coats
depending on how absorbent the grout is)
I used the slightly different version for my natural stone tiles in the bathroom (protects the tile and grout) and I've got no stains at all
after a year of heavy use, but I was told that I'd need to top it up with another coat about every 2 years...
but even with the best stain protection dark grout is the way forward for floors
(got a nice dark grey grout on the bathroom floor)
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Disgruntled karter
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| posted on 28/5/14 at 03:58 PM |
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Tiling kitchen floor
Just be aware that some older type 'marly' vinyl tiles contain asbestos (so I'm told by a friend who is a professional flooring
contractor) so take precautions when removing them.
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Lightning
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| posted on 28/5/14 at 05:04 PM |
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Whatever you do do not use B and Q ready made tile adhesive and grout . Its crap it didn't go off. Had to remove all tiles and start again.
Wished I'd done research first. All feed back on this product said don't use!!!
Steve
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big_wasa
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| posted on 28/5/14 at 07:02 PM |
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I had the same problem. Trouble is I don't know what I used the third time but I've now got all the tiles up and I am struggling my ass
of to get the adhesive / grout of the concrete.
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JoelP
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| posted on 28/5/14 at 08:23 PM |
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Either a large floor scraper, or hands and knees with a hammer and chisel. You may need to screed the floor to make it level again.
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McLannahan
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| posted on 28/5/14 at 08:28 PM |
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Thanks again everyone. Some pondering time and some drumming of fingers now needed!
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big_wasa
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| posted on 28/5/14 at 08:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
Either a large floor scraper, or hands and knees with a hammer and chisel. You may need to screed the floor to make it level again.
Yep on our knees and it could end in divorce.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 29/5/14 at 08:17 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I had the same problem. Trouble is I don't know what I used the third time but I've now got all the tiles up and I am struggling my ass
of to get the adhesive / grout of the concrete.
hire a rotary hammer drill thingy that can do hammer only with a big wide chisel attachment (they sometimes call them mini breakers)
something like this: linky
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