Hello all-

First off, hello from Los Angeles. And this is my first post.

I am about to embark on a buildup of a bike engined MG Midget/Sprite. Before you ask why I would choose to do such a thing realize that it will be used in a race series we have here called "24 Hours Of Lemons". These cars have to cost less then $500 net. This $500 does not include safety equipment or tires and brakes which are open. Since one is allowed to recoup costs by selling back parts that are unused during the buildup.

I already built one very successful car, a Fireblade powered Suziki Swift (Geo Metro). It used a very simple chain setup driving the front wheels. See picture of us taking the checker at the last race we did.

Anyhow, I am looking to do this again but rear wheel drive this time and crappy Spridgets can be had for $500, and that's before I sell off the old engine and other parts. Getting a salvaged bike can also yield a cheap engine once the rest of the parts are sold as well. Obviously labor is not included in the $500!!!!

My question is, what is the best engine for a shaft driven BEC like this? GSXR1300's cost too much. I thought of ZX12r but I hear they need drysump to work. R1? Does it need drysumping? I could go Fireblade again but I am hoping for a bit more power.

Whatever engine I go with it has to be drop in ready with just a driveshaft adapter. No big oiling mods and such.

Sorry for such a long question. Suggestions?

Thanks!
Rescued attachment T-Hill 08.jpg

Welcome.


How about air/oil cooled Suzuki 1000 engine, they take some serious abuse and are proven to last 24hr events in a car times over ?

You would then also re coupe the price of the cooling system you don't use and sell on.


Short answer but off out now I'm sure by the time I return there will be plenty more suggestions.

The race series sounds great fun btw take a bit of policing regards budget I guess though ?

Welcome to the madhouse

I used to have a midget. Great little car. Yours sounds like a good project but may i suggest you think bigger

Linky to bigger thoughts

Seriously, good luck with your project

Sure the BEC boys will be along soon to answer your question...

Steve

How about putting the engine in the back side ways and having a chain driving a cog fitted to the diff input. It would have to cope with a bit of flex as the axle moves but seeing it’s a fun race thing should be fine. Just a thought See my horrible picture attempt

oh and welcome to the site
Rescued attachment BECMG.JPG

I'm a fan of Big Old Kawasakis like the GPz900 ZX10 ZX11 (as you call them over there, here it's the ZZR1100).

These are older and heavier than the newer stuff, but I think something like that or a Honda CBR1000 or Suzuki GSXR1100 oil cooled is kind of appropraite for what you're trying to do.

In the case of the ZX10, they're extremely simple to get running and in my case, this gives 137bhp. Stick a ZX11 in and it's 147bhp.

The fact that ebay is full of this type of older and simpler motor sort of seals it for me.

I'm well known for not settling for older / simpler / cheaper technology, so please feel free to ignore me.

Regarding the Spridget, a friend of mine has one of these. His car has a Toyota 2TG in it and he has owned the car since 1971. The Toyota has the big valve head, race cams, twin 45s, the whole nine yards as the saying goes, and produces 165bhp at 7,000rpm.

At 7,001rpm it eats its valves.

Anyway, I digress.

Welcome and best of luck.

Welcome to Locost Builders! Have you considered twin engine, one in the front one in the back? You could go for cheaper engines and get 4 wheel drive! It has been done before, usually with a split gear lever; left doing one gearbox, right doing the other. Tiger and Z Cars have done it before;

Z Cars
Tiger Racing

Z Cars are the experts, they built the tiger.

Oh yeah, a quick P.S. it's worth resizing your photos before posting them as the site doesn't handle large photo's very well.

[Edited on 23/1/09 by sucksqueezebangblow]

Thanks for the early replies and sorry about the giant picture. I was looking at those ZX10's and Zx11's. Are they OK in a car without any oiling modifications? A bit of this will have to do with what I trip over on Ebay or at a local salvage place. I'll ask about specific engines once I get closer to buying one.

By the way the policing of the budget of the event is very seat of the pants, with every car being scrutineered by the organizers judges. Any obvious expensive parts will get laps subtracted from your team before the race even starts. One team showed up in a very nicely prepared Acura and got a 1500 lap penalty in a 400 lap race!

I will have to document this build very well since the organizers where a bit suspicious of our last car as it ripped up the track during practice. Here is a link to a video made at the last race....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmmRh-YH72I

Silly yet serious.

My oiling modification consustes of fitting a GPZ900R Sump (oil pan) to my ZX10 engine.
It's much shorter so helps the engine fit in that bit better.

Being as you are in the States, why not try a FJ1200 Yamaha as used in the Legends cars. The parts would be readily available for the conversion. Driveshaft bolted to bike gear box

It may be too much for your budget, but these guys have put an R1 into a Midget already:

http://www.lynxae.co.uk/Gallery-bikeeng%20cars.htm

May be of some use?

My tip: BMW K series

Thanks for all the great ideas. The salvage bikes that make the list so far are: Kaw. Zx10 Zx11 Yam. R1, GSXR 1100's. It has a bit to do with what falls in my lap.

Thanks, I'll keep you posted as the build starts and also of the racing career of the current $500 BEC.

-Alex

I have a line on a cheap 1997 Honda CBR1100 XX "Blackbird" engine. Does anyone here have any info on how that engine works in a car setting? 164hp will do fine. Just fine!

blackbirds don't like BEC's.
Lots of stories of tragedy.

Oiling problems without dry sump. Cylinder 3 dies.

I see that GSXR1100 is on your list. I am putting on of these in. Issues are:
1) Don't do air/oil cooled, go for a later water cooled
2) If using a prop, then you need to do some magic with the clutch slave cylinder (problem has been solved before)
3) Its not as popular as other engines, so you will have to make more stuff, but if you are staying < $500 then that means you can already make a manifold and prop.

GSXR1100 seem popular in dwarfcar (in the US), so the solutions are well known. Not as much used in the UK.

Matt

p.s. more info on my www

Hello again-

I got lucky and found a 2007 Honda CBR1000RR engine for $600. It came with everything from the radiator to the back of the header. Full wiring harness and all. Even the gas tank. Starts and runs on the garage floor.

I am very excited to get such a deal since I can sell off the parts I won't need to offset the cost and keep in my budget.

Here's the first issue. The engine is 36 inches tall from the pan to the top of the airbox. A third of that is the airbox itself. I would ditch the airbox but it has secondary injectors in it. How does one keep those and run another kind of filter?

I also have to mod the clutch slave to clear the driveshaft but that's within my capabilities. I think.

Airbox??? Hmmm.

-Alex

quote:

---

Originally posted by avendlerdp
Hello again-

I got lucky and found a 2007 Honda CBR1000RR engine for $600. It came with everything from the radiator to the back of the header. Full wiring harness and all. Even the gas tank. Starts and runs on the garage floor.

I am very excited to get such a deal since I can sell off the parts I won't need to offset the cost and keep in my budget.

Here's the first issue. The engine is 36 inches tall from the pan to the top of the airbox. A third of that is the airbox itself. I would ditch the airbox but it has secondary injectors in it. How does one keep those and run another kind of filter?

I also have to mod the clutch slave to clear the driveshaft but that's within my capabilities. I think.

Airbox??? Hmmm.

-Alex

---

I had a 1975 Opel manta that I was putting an 06 cbr1000rr motor into. I also had an issue with hood clearance. My plan (had I been able to continue the project) was to take the 4 ram air funnels that perch atop the throttle bodies inside the air box and cut the "funneled" portion off leaving only a smooth cylinder and then place atop those 4 cylindrical pod filters approximately 6 inches tall. Then into the "cap" or "top" of each of those filters make a hole for the fuel injector to go. Then all that's left is moving the injectors to the new filters and cut a hole in the hood for clearance.

i utterly love the idea of the Le Mons event. looks brilliant fun. i especially like the rules and penalties too!

Man thats an old thread getting revived here, why?????