We are curious as to our gearchange procedure. We have been informed that 'up-changes' (1,2,3...) it may not be necessary to clutch. However on the way down (...3,2,1) it is.

My question is: the 'box has become almost impossible to change up without clutch at any revs.

We're wondering 'is this typical'?

Thanks in advance!

Not normally no, all up changes from 1st to top are usually just a little "tug" on the lever as you ease of the throttle, milliseconds. 1st to 2nd can be a bit "clunky" the rest are usually very smooth.

Now the difficult bit - as it has got gradually worse (but never been right) in the 300 miles we've had it - what could it be, any idea's?

We have also got a bit of clutch slip but I think that's the cable maladjusted - for now.

Thanks!

i surpose it could be a worn selector fork or selector drum.
not a mechanic though!!

Thinking about it logically, could the problems we describe, be due to the fact that we have not yet replaced the engine oil or filter? Could it be that the engine oil has deteriorated and is too thin. We wanted to make sure it ran ok before changing the oil.

Hi Steve,
If your downshifts are ok but upshifts aren't it does sound like a bent selector fork...
Unlikely to be connected with oil but wouldn't hurt to change it.

Is your gear stick moving normally, when changing up and down? check the connecting rods/bell cranks etc from stick to box I suppose something could be loose that is limiting the 'throw' on upshifts.

John

Shifting up and down with the clutch isn't a problem. Its only the upshift without it that is sometimes difficult. Also, we've noticed that when flooring the throttle in low gears it seems to slip slightly and then recover power.

Sos, misread the post.
Changing with clutch is ok then the selector fork is doing its job...
Clutch slip appears to be fairly common in BEC's, it will slip and then recover as the plates heat up and the last of the oil is 'squashed ' out.
have you overfilled with oil?
Clutchless shifts are easier high up the rev range and need to be a very quick 'snatch' into gear. If you miss it first time there's a good chance you'll hit a whole box of neutrals!
Oh, and Honda make great engines but their gearboxes have never been the best. That honour goes to Suzuki.

John

Thanks for that information John. We'll change the oil & filter tonight and see how we get on.

Barnett springs (MT-99-5) seems to be the dogs nuts in a blade.
Ive just put them in mine after having a small amount of slip despite fitting a new (EBC) clutch and Honda OEM springs, and the clutch pedal is noticably heavier and Ive got absolutely no slip.
The model number above are actually uprated Blackbird ones, but they are the same size / length as blade ones but I assume slightly more uprated than their normal uprated springs for a blade.

If you find you do need gearbox parts then give me a shout as Ive got spare forks and selector drums etc which will otherwise find their way onto Ebay eventually.

Chris

[Edited on 13/5/04 by ChrisGamlin]

Ok - we have dropped oil and replaced. Took for a spin, gearchange without clutch seems much better on upshift so we think that's one problem sorted.

However, the clutch slip thing - which we now think ISN'T clutch slip. Under full throttle (2up) 1st gear no slip, upchange and a very harsh couple of; what can only be described as; blips (hard to describe) but it's feels very severe. similar to clutch slip but can't be (as it doesn't do it in 1st under max acceleration). Change up again and it does the surge/blip thing again. but not necessarily under full throttle.

In our collective opinions it feels clutch related, but what do we know? We went down to see Martin K, who has expressed it may be a split friction plate.

We are stripping out clutch Sunday for investigation, but any advice as to what it could be would be most welcome!

TIA

You wont necessarily get clutch slip in the lower gears. In the lower gears the gearing is helping reduce the forces on the clutch and car isnt working against friction / air resistance so much. You also generally experience clutch slip initially at around 6-8k rpm where peak torque is, and it will sometimes go away higher up the rev range.
Try it with just one up, does it improve at all? The harsh "blip" you describe does sound a bit odd tho, clutch slip usually feels more like you're spinning up an inside wheel and gradually comes back as you lift off slightly or it bites again at higher revs, so it could be something like a broken friction like MK have suggested.