What exactly happens to them?
Turning over for ages before engine fires, engaging starter whike car still rolling etc?
A good friend of mine is now selling his dominator which im gutted about as its the only one I know in existence which is being used (when its not
broke)
After a track day last sat he at his wits end with it, he and his father spun the car on 2 occasions, both times dumping the clutch as fast as
possible but the second time proved too late and it caused the starter to fail.
I myself have done this when I spun mine. Is there anyway to help prevent this? obviously more driver talent to stop the spin in the first place
would be great lol
Bit more info required imo for anyone to help
What exactly happens to them?
Turning over for ages before engine fires, engaging starter whike car still rolling etc?
What engine are you running ?
If you are running a Hayabusa you need to fit a special sprag clutch which is available from places such as SBD
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Hayabusa/Hayabusa_starter_motor.htm
http://www.novaracing.co.uk/ProductHayabusaStarterClutch.html
[Edited on 26/11/14 by minitici]
Not sure which engine you are running but I have personally seen this happen to ZX12r's, ZX10r's, Fireblades, Busa's and GSXR's.
The end result depends on how quick you catch it with the clutch, how fast you are going, how sticky your tyres are how lucky you are. Results range
from a toasted starter to a lump smashed out of a crankcase(busa) and a few bent cranks to boot(blade and ZX10r)
The answer is set the car up to be compliant and stable so you can catch the slides and if you push too hard hit the clutch instantly.
As pointed out there is a clutch kit to tackle this issue on Busas
best regards
Andy
Out of interest cause I like to know/understand things like this what is it that breaks/damages them?
Not got a clue on how a bike starter works,(thinking its called pre-engaged?)was searching everywhere for a solenoid when got my R1 eng!
Blades and most others have a ratchet gear like a pushbike, go backwards and the starter is spun up to and beyond its designed speed, it's
permanantly engaged where a car is only engaged when called for.
[Edited on 26/11/14 by mark chandler]
quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
Blades and most others have a racket gear like a pushbike, go backwards and the starter is spun up to beyond its designed speed, it's permanantly engaged where a car is only engaged when called for.
[Edited on 26/11/14 by mark chandler]
Some old ones used to use the starter motor as the generator as well, but in general yes they are pretty much all like this.
sorry for the late reply and thankyou very much for the responses so far. The engine on my friends dominator is an R1, mine is a gsxr 1000 k4, I spun
mine as in my video (type dom @ anglesey 2014 into youtube) went to try and start it an nothing was happenening, when I removed the starter and opened
it up all the internals had literally disintergrated. Is there anything for the GSXR that could help this?
on another note, has anyone ever tried to keep the car sliding once its broke tracktion such as a drift? Im normally not too mad in a rwd car but for
the life of me I cant seem to correct the slide intime :-(
Again serviere lack of talent
Never heard of it being an issue on an R1. Spun mine several times and not had an issue (360 into the gravel at Brands just 2 weeks ago, 80+mph at Blyton, LOTS of times on a day at Oultons drift tracks...)
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
Never heard of it being an issue on an R1. Spun mine several times and not had an issue (360 into the gravel at Brands just 2 weeks ago, 80+mph at Blyton, LOTS of times on a day at Oultons drift tracks...)
So the problem occurs when you spin because you start to go backwards which tries to drive the starter motor in reverse through the sprag clutch? Just to understand.
I think so but not too sure, the problem is these cars i find are just soooo hard to drive on (the drivers) limit so spinning I think is going to be a
frequent occurence next year.
Im trying to find a few tuition courses to try and grasp the whole driving aspect of it a bit more. These cars I think are all about being neat and
not drifting etc
quote:
Originally posted by Autoflock Motorsport
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
Never heard of it being an issue on an R1. Spun mine several times and not had an issue (360 into the gravel at Brands just 2 weeks ago, 80+mph at Blyton, LOTS of times on a day at Oultons drift tracks...)
did you clutch in straight away mate?
you make it sound soooo simple lol
i lost it at anglesey on the left hander after the finish straight, hit the apex and opened it right up, ran wide and though I would clip the opposite
rumblestrip on the exit, WHAT TO TWAT I WAS
seriously the car lifted and lost traction, i let off and it snatched straight back the other side. Really shook me up
dont laugh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iRXGht_7rI
My first ever drive in the dom
Yes, a lot easier to say than it is to do. Video here of me (near the end) not getting the balance right. The camera car was doing 115mph allegedly
when it started...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so_i3ZaEtHY
ive just literally pissed myself laughing, well held that mate, I bet colourful languge was being spoken if not screamed when that started snaking. The camera car wast hanging around at a ll to be fair. Looks so much easier to drive than a mid engined car
quote:
Originally posted by simonrh
So the problem occurs when you spin because you start to go backwards which tries to drive the starter motor in reverse through the sprag clutch? Just to understand.
Yes, if you spin and the engine goes backwards because you did not disengage the clutch, the sprag on the starter motor engages and allows the engine to drive the starter motor. The starter now goes from being able to spin the engine flat out at 300 rpm, to whatever the wheels drive the engine to in reverse. I have seen the windings on the starter rotor break and hit the stator. I have also had an alternator break rotor windings because of the sudden speed reversal.
quote:
Originally posted by wombat258
Yes, if you spin and the engine goes backwards because you did not disengage the clutch, the sprag on the starter motor engages and allows the engine to drive the starter motor. The starter now goes from being able to spin the engine flat out at 300 rpm, to whatever the wheels drive the engine to in reverse. I have seen the windings on the starter rotor break and hit the stator. I have also had an alternator break rotor windings because of the sudden speed reversal.