Can someone tell me I'm being stupid...

After the children are past their terrible twos, I'm in need of a project.

I've built an MNR VortX R1 and loved it, but I want to do something a little more practical / requiring a load more design work.

I want a car with a heater, roof and some doors (and maybe a reverse).

I have been looking at modifying a SMART FourTwo with a motor in the rear as I can see how this would be an easier project to start with (rear engined, RWD).

But I think they look a bit crap and definitely don't handle fantastically...

I can't stop thinking about a Toyota iQ as the donor, and I like the looks (in a weird way).

This guy genuinely did a fantastic job, but I still want to see how realistic it is to convert to RWD (if I lost the back seats obviously)

https://daveintheusa.com/index.php/videos/

I'm an Engineer that can use mechanical / electronic CAD packages and have a fair amount of design experience (just not in modding a FWD car to be RWD)...

Where do I start? Linkies? Comments? Genuine advice, to say I'm being stupid?!

Any comments appreciated...

Chris.

I think you probably start with the base car, an engine you plan to use, an angle grinder, a pad of paper and a pencil, plus a few cups of tea

Seriously though this would be a bit of a 'pioneering' project, I don't think you'll find much to help you on the net unfortunately.

To me it sounds like a great idea and absolutely possible!

[Edited on 2/4/19 by AdamR20]

Stupid ? Not at all . We love this kind of stupidity . For three years ago i was in the same situation like you . I love my Westfield but i wanted something with roof and doors . I ended up with a 500Maxi . Italien design and Japanise heart ( Honda CBR 1000 RR ) Practical ? Just a litle more then the Westfield

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5BPXRnz3zs3iwzAj9

// Sorin

Not stupid at all!

Some years ago (pre kids) I built an MK Indy. Loved the building, loved the car and loved driving it. Got married, 3 kids (1 + twins) and a 2 seat roofless car just didn't work for us, so I sold it.

A couple of years later I scratched a long time itch and bought a Peugeot 205 GTI (roof, heater, wipers, 5 seats). SWMBO was annoyed at first, but after the first trip out with the whole family in it she came round to the idea rather quick.

Unfortunately due to epilepsy I can't drive on the road, but I still have the Peugeot tucked away

It's front wheel drive and for me (and many others) too valuable as it is to start modifying. I have however seen other people make rear wheel drive Peugeot 205s. IIRC "NSDev" on this forum built one some time ago.

There's also a Peugeot 205 been converted with 4x4 Cosworth running gear:

https://passio nford.com/forum/restorations-rebuilds-and-projects/161592-peugeot-205-with-4wd-cosworth-engine-and-running-gear.html

If you have the urge and skills then I say GO FOR IT!

The iQ seems as good a start point as many of the other small hatch backs out there.

[Edited on 2/4/19 by nick205]

[Edited on 2/4/19 by nick205]

just thinking out loud - I assume you are planning a rear engine to move the weight balance backwards?

try this link: https://www.kimini.com/ the early works of the designer of midlana

Regards
Hugh

it appears that you are not being completely stupid...

for a while the Iq was badge engineered as an aston martin cygnet.
they also made a special,
4.7l V8 430bhp

https://www.thenational.ae/lifestyle/motoring/aston-martin-s-one-off-tiny-terror-the-v8-cygnet-in-pictures-1.749802

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/aston-martin/the-insane-aston-martin-cygnet-v8-is-a-123-inch-car-with-a-v8-ar181806.html

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dracula
Stupid ? Not at all . We love this kind of stupidity . For three years ago i was in the same situation like you . I love my Westfield but i wanted something with roof and doors . I ended up with a 500Maxi . Italien design and Japanise heart ( Honda CBR 1000 RR ) Practical ? Just a litle more then the Westfield

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5BPXRnz3zs3iwzAj9

// Sorin

---

This is the ZZR1400 packaged about as tight as you sensibly can, already running smaller pinion & crownwheel to reduce length, you could get a better (longer) wishbone setup as ours is compromised by needing to accept a car engine as alternative


[img]
Description [/img]

Thanks for the encouragement all!

AdamR20 - I've made a load of tea so far and have a pad full of notes / scribbles under way, along with a growing bookmark manager and folder on my NAS drive of pictures and articles! I think I'll be doing a load more reading...

hughpinder - That kimini.com site is awesome. Books on order...

Dracula - Looks a great build so far! Love the 500Maxi... Have you got any close up pics of the engine in place? And how you've linked up the engine to your chosen diff? LSD? How do you tension the chain?

Nick205 - Love the similarities! Sorry to hear about the epilepsy. A good mate has just been diagnosed and has 12 months out. He's managing it through diet (ketosis!) with success, so fingers crossed!

Gremlin1234 - Love that Cygnet, although it feels like a slightly different beast under the skin. It still used the Toyota motor, but I don't think the V8 was particularly similar in any way.

Russbost - Love your work! Lots of questions I'm afraid...

- What diff do you use? LSD?
- Doe the flywheel gear that is used to drive the reverse driven by a pre-engaged starter motor? How does that attach to the diff?
- Do you put a cush drive in the rear transmission anywhere?
- Do you hard mount the ZZR14 motor or can you poly bush it for less vibration?
- Have you got some pictures of the motor front sprocket area?
- Where do I start with a design for the engine cradle / rear suspension mounting design?
- What rear hubs / uprights do you use?

Sorry for all the questions....

Ta!

Chris.

Hi Chris

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nKiQhCqhmdq8riK97

The brackets which the diff / reverse gear rests on has oval holes so I can pull it back. Thinking of a solution lyke on the bikes a bolt that pulls it back. I have some ideas i just need to think a little which one will be the best.
One of the picturs is with the old diff in place . Take a look at WestGarage https://chaindrivediff.co.uk/ . Maybe you can find something for you need

// Sorin

- What diff do you use? LSD? I use the open diff that comes with the donor – Toyota MR2 modified to seal up & fill with grease & then modded to fit bearings & chainwheel to. You could use pretty much any diff from anything modern, apart from anything tiny they’d all handle the power as you’ll break traction (unless you’re using absolutely monster very sticky rubber) waaaay b4 you’ll break anything in the driveline. I use the standard length Toyota driveshafts by swapping the inner joints (different lengths) side for side. Running an open diff with the Furore isn’t much of an issue (particularly for road use) as it’s very stiff & long wheelbase – on a shorter vehicle you may be better with an LSD as it will be much more inclined to lift wheels

- Doe the flywheel gear that is used to drive the reverse driven by a pre-engaged starter motor? How does that attach to the diff? Flywheel gear is expensive to get machined, but I guess could be done for any given starter motor, when machined you obviously get it made for correct centre size & a ring of bolts to secure it to the chainwheel with spacers in between the 2 gears

- Do you put a cush drive in the rear transmission anywhere? Nope – but then I wanted hard & brutal, like a race car, adding a cush drive only makes them marginally less brutal & why add weight & complication

- Do you hard mount the ZZR14 motor or can you poly bush it for less vibration? I poly mounted the first one I did, the engine mounts at the front are close to the exhaust & I foolishly used poly bushes – it melted them allowing the engine to move around & chuck the chain off – they are all solid mounted now, you feel very little vibes from the engine tho’

- Have you got some pictures of the motor front sprocket area? Not an area I usually picture, but as luck has it I happen to have one in bits I’ve just taken a couple of pics, will post in a day or 2 – not sure how much it will tell you tho’

- Where do I start with a design for the engine cradle / rear suspension mounting design? 2 ways of going at it. Best way is to wait until you have an engine, decide how/where you want the suspension around it & work from there, that way involves least compromise & should be neatest/lightest. I was restricted in that we wanted to use car engines as well, hence chassis was designed around a car engine & the bike engine sits in its own cradle which mounts the diff & the whole lot drops into the frame. I could give you the size of the engine bay & you could work similarly & then just drop the engine in in a cradle afterwards, or I could flog you the rear section of a chassis, but if I was doing your project I would start with engine/suspension & work from there

- What rear hubs / uprights do you use? I use the Toyota donor again, with some modifications, but my recommendation would be to look at what is readily available for anything using IRS, like 7’s, & probably go that route unless you can find somethingthat’s particularly good elsewhere. Remember, it’s far easier to use an existing diff/driveshafts/hubs etc. which all marries together & if necessary mount the engine slightly off centre rather than get the engine dead centre & then try to make everything else work around it

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dracula
Hi Chris

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nKiQhCqhmdq8riK97

The brackets which the diff / reverse gear rests on has oval holes so I can pull it back. Thinking of a solution lyke on the bikes a bolt that pulls it back. I have some ideas i just need to think a little which one will be the best.
One of the picturs is with the old diff in place . Take a look at WestGarage https://chaindrivediff.co.uk/ . Maybe you can find something for you need

// Sorin

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by russbost
- What diff do you use? LSD? I use the open diff that comes with the donor – Toyota MR2 modified to seal up & fill with grease & then modded to fit bearings & chainwheel to. You could use pretty much any diff from anything modern, apart from anything tiny they’d all handle the power as you’ll break traction (unless you’re using absolutely monster very sticky rubber) waaaay b4 you’ll break anything in the driveline. I use the standard length Toyota driveshafts by swapping the inner joints (different lengths) side for side. Running an open diff with the Furore isn’t much of an issue (particularly for road use) as it’s very stiff & long wheelbase – on a shorter vehicle you may be better with an LSD as it will be much more inclined to lift wheels

- Doe the flywheel gear that is used to drive the reverse driven by a pre-engaged starter motor? How does that attach to the diff? Flywheel gear is expensive to get machined, but I guess could be done for any given starter motor, when machined you obviously get it made for correct centre size & a ring of bolts to secure it to the chainwheel with spacers in between the 2 gears

- Do you put a cush drive in the rear transmission anywhere? Nope – but then I wanted hard & brutal, like a race car, adding a cush drive only makes them marginally less brutal & why add weight & complication

- Do you hard mount the ZZR14 motor or can you poly bush it for less vibration? I poly mounted the first one I did, the engine mounts at the front are close to the exhaust & I foolishly used poly bushes – it melted them allowing the engine to move around & chuck the chain off – they are all solid mounted now, you feel very little vibes from the engine tho’

- Have you got some pictures of the motor front sprocket area? Not an area I usually picture, but as luck has it I happen to have one in bits I’ve just taken a couple of pics, will post in a day or 2 – not sure how much it will tell you tho’

- Where do I start with a design for the engine cradle / rear suspension mounting design? 2 ways of going at it. Best way is to wait until you have an engine, decide how/where you want the suspension around it & work from there, that way involves least compromise & should be neatest/lightest. I was restricted in that we wanted to use car engines as well, hence chassis was designed around a car engine & the bike engine sits in its own cradle which mounts the diff & the whole lot drops into the frame. I could give you the size of the engine bay & you could work similarly & then just drop the engine in in a cradle afterwards, or I could flog you the rear section of a chassis, but if I was doing your project I would start with engine/suspension & work from there

- What rear hubs / uprights do you use? I use the Toyota donor again, with some modifications, but my recommendation would be to look at what is readily available for anything using IRS, like 7’s, & probably go that route unless you can find somethingthat’s particularly good elsewhere. Remember, it’s far easier to use an existing diff/driveshafts/hubs etc. which all marries together & if necessary mount the engine slightly off centre rather than get the engine dead centre & then try to make everything else work around it

---

Thanks Sorin.

I love these build pictures! Looks like an awesome project car. Is the spaceframe your design? Or based on a kit of some sort?

Looks like the WestGarage diff is a great bit of kit. Very tempted to get one, just need to finish the house DIY first before I'm allowed to spend money... Seems like a slightly unfair deal now I think of it...

What is your rear driveshafts / uprights and hubs based on? Donor car?

Ta,

C.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dracula
Thanks Sorin.

I love these build pictures! Looks like an awesome project car. Is the spaceframe your design? Or based on a kit of some sort?

Looks like the WestGarage diff is a great bit of kit. Very tempted to get one, just need to finish the house DIY first before I'm allowed to spend money... Seems like a slightly unfair deal now I think of it...

What is your rear driveshafts / uprights and hubs based on? Donor car?

Ta,

C.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Winston Todge

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dracula
Thanks Sorin.

I love these build pictures! Looks like an awesome project car. Is the spaceframe your design? Or based on a kit of some sort?

Looks like the WestGarage diff is a great bit of kit. Very tempted to get one, just need to finish the house DIY first before I'm allowed to spend money... Seems like a slightly unfair deal now I think of it...

What is your rear driveshafts / uprights and hubs based on? Donor car?

Ta,

C.

---

Hi

I have bought the frame and body from Italy. (http://www.500maxi.com/ ) The uprights and hubs is from Fiat Punto. The driveshafts are also from Fiat punto but they need modification. (Too short) I will buy new ones from http://berrisford.co.uk/index.php/driveshafts.html . West Garage diff is a very nice unit. A little pricey but you get what you pay for .

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jnEqMS48FEYV6ZNw6

// Sorin

---