Hi all!

Planning a future build of a se7en, I'm inclined to use the Pan European - 1100, 100hp - engine with a Stuart Taylor chassis/fibre/suspension.

The use will be 95% road, 5% trash, <7500 km/year. I don't need too much power, too.

As I live in Portugal, I need a LHD car, so I can't have an engine protruding the driver's footweell .

What are your opinions regarding
* engine (aren't bike bike engines too poor regarding torque )
* ST (he doens't seem TOO cheap, but his stuff seems good)

Many thanks in advance,
Joćo Caldeira,
Lisbon, Portugal
(where the sun is still shining, althought a lillte cold - max 19ŗcelsius )

I don't know the pan engines, but a car fitted with a bike engine (such as a blade, zx9...) cant be LHD because of the steering column position can it?? Or am i just being a bit stupid?

Don't know about the ST chassis but I have seen a LHD ZX9 Fury that Fisher Sportscars built for a client (indeed I think there are quite a few LHD BECs in the US.

Give ST / Fishers a call

Cheers

Jim

LHD BEC is no problem, well, not impossible anyway. Look at this one:
http://www.haselier.nl/kitcars.htm

It can be done, it seems to be about placing the engine further to the right. Don't know about the consequences for the prop-angle though.......

Ok, i was being stupid!!

Looks as tight as a gnats chuff though!!

if you bought the steering column down at a steep angle then horizontal(via uj) to the rack,mount the rack with the pinion horizontal,ok ill go back to my cave,sorry

Well, I also saw a (norwegian or swedish) LHD Westfield, which had a RHD rack, and the steering column went over (!) the engine (using one or two joints). Looked a bit overcomplex.

pan euro a good engine and chosen because of its higher torque. Makes nearly same bhp as blade but nicer to drive, and you get an exhaust either side of your car which you may find cool. As regards stuart taylor the guy who runs it is an arse. Crap grp has been my main problem with no attempt on his behalf to rectify or compensate me for having a totally poo bonnet. Try mk and never look back. for lhd advice go to findit.co.uk and look in kit car services for mach1 builders. These boys'll help you no doubt.

I don't think many will argue against you that the GRP from ST is pants, and Ian can be rather dismissive and arrogant at times, but he always seemed OK when it came to getting things swapped out if they were wrong. What happened with the bonnet then?

Chris

[Edited on 6/11/02 by ChrisGamlin]

bonnet had sunk inbetween the strenghtening ribs in the bonnet creating a seaside wave effect. Also the glassfibre had been repaired when in the mould which shows as a 2" round mess through the gelcoat. He gave me a bonnet bulge as compensation but this was cracked down one side and had lumps in the finish aswell. I argued quite strongly with him but he wouldnt budge. Pity cos his engineering and chassis design are one of the best, and gonna be building another 7 soon, but dont think ill be giving him any more of my hard earned. I spoke to some other people who took their finished 7s to show him and apparently he told some of them he thought they were crap and wouldnt pass sva! Anyway, moan over. What did you build? Im gettin on the bec wagon, oh the shame!

Mach 1 Motorsport - speak to Mark - 0114 2619 633. I bought my ZX9R from him, and since then I've rung him on a weekly basis to ask for advice on my build, he's a friendly chap and happy to talk for as long as you like and has helped me enormously - I can't recommend him enough. He's also a good source of cheaper branded bits as he gets the wholesale (seat belts, fans, wheels etc).

As for ST, well, most of you know my opinion of him. HOWEVER, he says he's happy to exchange the longer silencer for a shorter one no probs, as the exhaust is lovely and a good price - so he aint all bad.

As for GRP, go to Triton.

That's my 2p's for today!

PS Any BEC chaps comin to Exeter???

quote:

---

Originally posted by mr minimal
bonnet had sunk inbetween the strenghtening ribs in the bonnet........................... Anyway, moan over. What did you build? Im gettin on the bec wagon, oh the shame!

---

anyway back to the pan,is it a V6,shaft drive,water cooled,any power output figures and how much roughly would i get robbed for i wanted to get one?

pan euro is a v4, 1100. In standard tune they make around 90bhp. The trouble with them is its difficult to get tuning parts for the engine as the bike is not exactly bought by hammerheads. I guess you can fiddle with the jets, set the needle jets higher(less economical). You should see over 100bhp at rear wheels with some fiddling. Prices tend to range from £500 to £1000, most engines are high mileage cos of the type of bike plus they dont get crashed as much as blades so are a bit rarer. Shaft drive so the adaption to prop is quite straight forward.

hey chris. In your reply you said that you used an mk chassis with stuart taylor bodywork. At the time of building my st up, i rang mk to see if their bodywork would fit my car, they said no. did you build an indy or a live axle. Ideally i would like to use st chassis(i know i slagged him but the chassis i really like and its well executed)and the mk plastics, which seem to be of higher quality and cheaper. Just wondered if you had any opinions on whether they would mate up ok. I think the mk side panels wont fit cos the indy chassis is 1" taller than the st, but the rest should be ok? Any info appreciated. Thanks.

Mine is a live axled MK chassis, well I think its an MK.... I bought it as a part built kit (the bloke bolted the suspension on then lost interest), its definitely a factory fabricated chassis and it has the distinctive front wishbones, so I think its an MK. Also, its not a blade chassis, it originally had a boat anchor 1300 X Flow in it as the original owner was going to go Locost Racing.
Anyway, on to your questions, my chassis is totally book dimensions, as is the ST bodywork, so I couldnt comment on the MK Indy fibreglass I'm afraid. When fitting mine I did have problems with the ST ally side panels which seemed a little (about 5-10mm) too deep for my chassis, and also the rear fibreglass panel which was about 20mm not deep enough so doesnt fully wrap around the lower tube, it kinda sits on it rather than round it, sounds odd, not noticable in practice. The back panel also didnt wrap around enough towards the rear wheel arches, meaning I had to use two strips of extruded angle ally to fasten the panel to the two diagonal tubes in that area (sorry crap explanation!).
I could also envisage issues fitting the nose cone, I chopped out my radiator mounts and mounted my blade rad seperately but I'm not sure about clearance if using a Polo rad on an ST chassis, whether the MK would go over top.
The other thing, if the MK chassis is 1" higher, does that mean the scuttle/bonnet/nose is 1" lower? If so, there may well be engine clearance issues.
I imagine you probably could make it all fit, but there might be a couple of tricky areas and its a bit of a risk unless you budget for possibly having to buy another set of bodywork in the worse case scenario!

BTW, the car will be out for a trackday at Brooklands (Weybridge, Surrey) on Saturday the 30th if anyone wants to come and have a look, along with about 25 other BECs of various flavours, so should be good.

cheers
Chris

[Edited on 12/11/02 by ChrisGamlin]

In Portugal, standard hp is 100, torque 79lb.ft / 111 Nm. The Pan bike weights 281 Kgs, which, in my opinion, makes it more suitable to a car as the weight difference isn't as notorious as in any other bike (except for Goldwing, BMW ???, etc...)

Weight relation
Bike : Car (550kgs estimated)
Pan 1 : 1,95 (281 Kg)
ZX-9R 1 : 2,56 (215 Kg)
R1 1 : 3,16 ( 174 Kg)

I think (am I wrong??? please enlight me) that this minor difference between the bike and car's weight will be positive to the gearbox. It will help the car be more realiable.

Opinions?
Joćo Caldeira

[Edited on 02/11/12 by JoaoCaldeira]

[Edited on 02/11/12 by JoaoCaldeira]

Joao, what you say is correct, in that there is less difference in weight between the car and the bike, although bear in mind that the Pan engine is probably a fair bit heavier than an R1 engine, so an R1 based car would weigh about 30-40kgs lighter than an aquivalent Pan based car.
What does a Pan Euro rev to and how is it geared, is it 6 speed? You would ideally need to work out what the speed the output flange rotates at at max speed and compare it to a blade/R1 etc, and hope it is similar, as otherwise you may find that its almost impossible to find a suitable diff/wheel size combination that will give you a reasonable top speed / cruising ability.

Chris

Hi Chris,
thanks for your input.

The information I found was:
* Transmission: 5- speed
* Final drive: Shaft drive, 2.833:1 final ratio

Does this help?

There is an owner who have one Se7en (ST) with a Pan engine and it only says good of it... (smoth, powerful, etc...)
http://website.lineone.net/~btbromilow/locost.htm

Joćo Caldeira