Read this thread and tell me what you think ?

http://www.bikecars.co.uk/Forum/topic.asp?intMessageID=2000

1) didn't do his research and bought random chassis (anyone know which?). Got burnt - unsurprisingly.

2) Sounds like one of the leading manufacturers could step in and offer a chassis/body kit for existing running gear...and get quite a bit of publicity out of it.

[Edited on 18/4/05 by stevebubs]

Very scary to be honest!
Do the regs for this series state that the cars 'should be able to pass MOT' ?
If so, and that car was presented to be tested, would it not fail on chassis? But not knowing the regs, its hard to make a fair comment.
It does seem incredible to me (as a racer), that anyone can build a car for the race track, putting their and others lives at risk, without the basic construction being 'examined'.
If this is the case, I don't think I would be happy to race alongside!
IMHO...of course!

Fozzie

I dont know the full story and i could well be wrong, but as i understand it the car is been built (dunno if its a home build or bought chassis) and its all been film'd for the "discovery channel" for a series of shows that start with build thru too racing, don't know when its due too be screen'd either bit sounds a bit scary too me too.

reads like a bought chassis, can't be from one of the major players surely. Do you remember the pics on here a while back showing front suspension mounts hanging in mid air, with no gussets, can't remember who's chassis it was. Dodgy ideas some folk have. agree with the lack of research tho' bet he's regretting it now.
Notice Ian Greys unabounding sympathy.......

Also, how come no one shouted up at the build stage, it has to be obvious if an aspect of design or fabrication is so bad that bits start falling off at the first bump, was the chassis made of string held together with blue tack?

[Edited on 18/4/05 by Wadders]

A bit of research tells me it is a bought chassis, i'm reluctant to name it though in case i'm wrong, but if you search thru past posts on the forum above you will find the name.

do people get backing to make a tv programme and end up with a pile of poop that falls to bits when they bounce the front up and down? Sounds like most of the builders on here could have made a better job of it. It must have had a good coat of paint to camouflage the crap welding or nobody bothered looking at it.

Not one iv'e heard of, although i don't buy kitcar mags anymore. Interestingly tho' in a later post he talks about welding on new suspension mounts........

Whatever the situation now it's fair to say that he has probably put alot of time and effort into building the car and it's a shame for him that this has happened, no matter how others feel about it then he is probably feeling twice as bad.

Two things spring to mind, firstly as pointed out earlier I would think that one of the major manufacturers should at least try to help out and supply a new chassis whether it be at a reduced rate is a matter for them.

Secondly, as we are all builders of our own cars at one stage or another would it not be good if we could all pull together to help him out and if he does get a new chassis then I for one would be happy to spend a weekend to help strip the old one and re-build it, if there is enough people then it would be possible, GTS built a car at the Detling show with not that many people so alot of people in a weekend should be able to do a pretty decent job.

Rich.

Truely scary, even more so that it does appear to be from a "manufacturer".
The maker is not one Ive heard of either, but the name of the guy who runs it (look on TotalkKitcar.com) rings a bell.

[Edited on 18/4/05 by ChrisGamlin]

Thats a very noble gesture Rich, but sadly if you check out the suppliers webby, (assuming the detective work is correct) the car is not a 7
it's more of a lemans style job, so a new chassis would need to be hand built from scratch to suit the body.
If i was the company concerened i would be moving heaven and earth to put this right, think of the publicity issues.

It does seem funnny that the supplying company in question doesn't make any mention of their involvement in the TV series. Guess they don't want too many people to watch.
Seem to remember a quote from them a while back saying that their chassis was an advanced development of a rather similar looking car (GT1) rather than just a blatant copy of the example he owned. Some advancement !!

You have got me worried now...

I bought a 90% complete car from Ebay. Was a home made job and looked OK.

I took off the pannels on the trannie tunnel and found the 2 top supporting bars are missing! Why? I have no idea.

Makes me think there may be other surprises lurking around.

How do you tell if it is any good?

I'm still in building state and actually i grabbed the confidence of people out here telling me it works (the car)
if this forum is dream, my car will definitly end the same......

i think he didn't do the research required for a good project. but in fact that's all what we do, we start a project.

one takes it more serieus as another but
"just buying" a chasis engine etc. and go and try will definitly end like it did a couple of laps and gone are you.
in fact its like all prototypes ends..and thats the reason they are called sow.


To build a car that last long and can drive
"the 24Hours of Lemans" is a good/ dificult job...

my signature could also be: stuff that works isn't a problem, reliabilty is!

i think that the manufacture cant run and hide (like in Oceans 11 ) he just have to admit that he have had ill/dreaming welder or something and just build another chasis, and this time trow the chasis true a analyser like (Cosmos Desingstar) and be sure that everything fits....

Another problem is that we don't know enough facts of the situ for example was the chasis build for the engie it has???

etc.

TKS

We can help the chap better in giveing him a ride in a good working car, or borrow one (like the offer on the forum)

on the other side of the page there is a story, and Discovery already has pushed/geared up the market with

marc westfield..atleast its a bit, and racing is already more risk and more pain in the arse

TKS

I notice the TV presenter guy signs his name Mark.
It's not the vet guy that people often slag off is it? There was various series on building a Westie, a helicopter(?) and a few other things?
I've never seen his program but it seems to get mentioned fairly frequently here.

Interesting all round...

Cheers,
James

It isn't the Vet guy - if you click the 'back' button at the bottom of the page and then hit the ManOnAMission name, it brings his piccy up.

It’s not clear to me what exactly happened as English doesn’t seem to be ManOnAMission’s first language, but I gather the wishbone mounts ripped off when West Tec bounced on the front of the chassis. I’m not sure what happened to end the day; “band metal noise” is some form of terminal mechanical trauma that I haven’t encountered before.
Someone called “timhoverd” then seems to attempting to absolve himself and “Mike” of any blame. Are timhoverd and Mike the essence of West Tec? Were they responsible for vetting/approving/managing the car for the film production?
How the hell can a car, either home built or manufactured, make it onto a raceway without first being scrutineered?
The builder or manufacturer of the chassis needs to be taken to task and retired to watch Sesame Street for the rest of their days, but if West Tec were at all involved with overseeing or preparing the car for the day, then they too should be held partially responsible for such an amateurish and appallingly dangerous (physically, for the driver and generally, for the kit car industry) fiasco.
If it was a manufactured chassis, then the industry needs tighter regulations.
If the chassis was home built, then other home builders will understand why the SVA is as tough as it is.

Rorty, Tim Hoverd (and maybe the other chap too) is another racer, I think they just lent a hand at some point to help get the car ready. Although you'd think most racers would spot and mention anything blindingly obvious, I think they can be absolved from any real blame especially as the chassis does appear to be a "manufactured" item from a supplier so therefore I think some people would have an element of trust that they actually knew what they were doing.
I know what you're saying about tests but I would assume that this chassis has maybe been either built as a one-off for racing, or this is their first ever chassis so hasnt yet got to SVA stage. It does seem a bit odd that its got this far without being questioned though, for example he also implies that it went to a fairly highly respected cage manufacturer to get a cage fitted, if that is so (and he didnt just buy an off-the-shelf cage) then you'd think they would spot a poorly welded chassis too so I can only assume that maybe to look at it was OK, its just simply the quality of the materials / welding that is at fault.
My best guess is that maybe a bare chassis has been supplied to this chap and that maybe he has welded on suspension bits and engine cradle etc himself, and its those that are failing.

[Edited on 19/4/05 by ChrisGamlin]

well, i am happy to be wrong, but i read it as possibly 'alegedly' being a dominator ?!
http://www.dominatorsportscars.co.uk/

Ned.

quote:

---

I’m not sure what happened to end the day; “band metal noise” is some form of terminal mechanical trauma that I haven’t encountered before.

---

Surely anyone who is planning to race in a self built car should satisfy himself that all the parts are fit for purpose and are correctly assembled. If he does not have sufficient confidence is his own abilities and judgement to do that himself, he should have it inspected by someone who does have sufficient knowledge and experience.

The backstop , as Rorty says, is the official scruitineering before any formal competiition is started

Cheers

Fred WB

i cant imagine it was a dominator chassis - can you even imagine how bad the welding must be to snap when you bounce it in the pit lane?! surely not possible. average tack welds would hold it securely on.

and if the dominator was, shall we say, inspired, by the GT1, surely the chassis would have similar strengths?

be careful anyway Jon

Tried posting this morning but it seamed to get lost in the eather.

Does any one know for sure if it was a dominator chasy?

I when to have a look at a dominator in hull last year in august while I was there I was shown a chasy that was apparently being built for racing. The ride height had been lowered by some 60mm if I remember correctly. By simply moving the brackets for the wish boans up the tubes hence moving them away form node points in to mid tube and the top shock mount was some what floating in space however when I asked him about this he bounced on the front a bit and it all held together. Having said all that he also showed me some rockers that removed the need for the shocks to be located like this and where a much neater solution.

blake

I have to wonder if it's just lax quality control on one bad chassis, or this is indicative of the chassis design.

I have to hope it's the former.

I wonder just how many people out there who buy kits, are even capable of judging the quality of a chassis or the welds on it. I'd be willing to bet the majority just take it on faith that the chassis is safe.

Any more info?

keeping a low profile on this one but if you read the link again you will see there seems to be summat a miss. There as been a few more replys since i posted the link.

[Edited on 23/4/05 by Jon Ison]

The manufacturer of the chassis has now replied, it is a Dominator.

Cheers,

Alex

was it build for what they wanted..??

another thing is offcourse that a bit of manufacture know what is strong and what is weak... i meen...a diff that ones to go his own way.. doesn't sound promising..

i would like to see pics of the chasis to judge if it was "just" close to hold the forces or it was a no no action..

TKS

Sorry for the bump on this, but was wondering if anyone knows what happened in this case...

Looked to me like the problem was the way in which the transaxle was braced to the engine, an issue that crops up a lot in large engine karts (250cc etc)...

The guy building was a total numptie in terms of where and how he spent money on this project...

Cant believe he got a sponsor when he hasnt even raced....



Looks like I have found out...

http://www.bikecars.co.uk/Forum/topic.asp?intMessageID=2391

[Edited on 6/10/05 by G.Man]

Good question.

Am sure I saw most of the parts for sale again somewhere.

Watched the recent re-run of series on Sky, having missed the most of it previously.

Bloke way out of his depth.

I was more concerned about the advice he obviously hadn't received...

Or maybe he hadn't listened..