We are trying to work out the engine mounts for the 'blade lump at the moment and in doing so need to know how low to sit it. From what we know, the air filter is going to be the highest point on the engine, so ideally this needs to sit below the bonnet.
Question is where do we get an air filter for a blade lump? I have seen one on TTS Performance's website, but does anyone else make them?
Have you guys using blade engines bought a custom fit one or just a generic one? Anyone done this without modifying a standard bonnet? How much did you pay?

When putting a 'blade' engine in an 'indy', we use the std airbox but turned upside down. This only sticks through the bonnet by about 1". We then cover it with a bonnet bulge. See Matthew's car/stafford show pics to see what I mean.

Yeah thanks for that Chris but we'd rather not have any bulges in the bonnet. We'd rather have clean lines so as not to stop those flies from smacking us in the face at high speed

Any one else used a "purchased" (dirty word I know ) air filter solution?

you're talking around £180 + a rolling road session to set it up. Our japanese friends spend millions of yen to get the induction setup to work right and then we go and throw it away and expect it to work ok first time. It won't happen without a bucket load of luck and/or knowledge!
Also, if you want clean lines, why build a seven? They're about as aerodynamic as a barn door! If that's what you're after then a Fisher Fury or a Phoenix is the way to go surely!

Chris,

We know that the airbox on the original bike is important and we know that to get it running correctly will require re-jetting and a tune up.

The issue here is that we don't want bulges in the bonnet because a) we've already got a bonnet and have no desire (no talent) to modify it and b) because I think that sort of thing looks ugly.

It's got nothing to do with aerodynamics just aesthetics.

Stuart,

I found this on Stuart Taylor's site. They use Pipercross sock filters to get around teh problem but the carbs need rejetting for which they charge £90.

Check out http://www.stuart-taylor.co.uk/Blade_build/blade-2-3.htm

I have a picture of MK's first Blade demo which has a custom filter on it. I suspect they can explain what they did if asked (let us know of you get an answer). I'm about to upload the MK demo car picture to my photo's area on this site.

Roger

Roger,

Have you used the original airbox on your car? Don't like the idea of forking out £90 for the rejet if we go with an aftermarket filter. I'm sure a bike shop could do it cheaper than that, as you generally have to get that done if you put an aftermarket exhaust on a bike.

The full cost of airfilter, backing plate and new jets from TTS is £124 (ZX9 version). Looks neat and tidy and the air rushing through the filter sounds great.

Stuart,

At present I just have the std air box fitted for the trial start-up as I am not ready for the road just yet, so that's an issue I have yet to resolve.

I have to admit, I saw a Fireblade car at MK the other day with the air box on back to front and just assumed it would fit under the bonnet. If it doesn't then I'll have to consider one of the options being discussed here also.

I have rejetted SU carbs many times as I used to be in to classic cars. DIY re-jetting may be an option which would keep the cost down, depending on how the jets are set/aligned. It's easy on SU carbs but I have not checked the Fireblade manual.

Roger

I seem to remember that there is a caterham demo car that has a standard airbox cut down so as the square paper filter is flush with the top, this then fitted under the bonnet and breathed through louvers directly above. I may have a photo somewhere and will post it if i can find it.
Paul.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dodgyroger
Stuart,

At present I just have the std air box fitted for the trial start-up as I am not ready for the road just yet, so that's an issue I have yet to resolve.

I have to admit, I saw a Fireblade car at MK the other day with the air box on back to front and just assumed it would fit under the bonnet. If it doesn't then I'll have to consider one of the options being discussed here also.

I have rejetted SU carbs many times as I used to be in to classic cars. DIY re-jetting may be an option which would keep the cost down, depending on how the jets are set/aligned. It's easy on SU carbs but I have not checked the Fireblade manual.

Roger

---

Yes that makes sense as the air filter is sandwiched between two halves of the air box. I was wondering if you could just leave the top off the air box - not pretty but it should work OK?

Roger

MK9R - I've just spoken to TTS and they want £90 for the filter kit and £80 for the jet kit, both plus vat. It will then at some point need to be rolling roaded, another £90 + vat. unfortunately the ZX9 filter is huge and triangular and will be a PIG to make an ali box for.

Think I'm gonna just buy their filter kit and take it to a rolling road locally in Croydon and save me some ££££

See I told ya, I told ya. There's a guy oop north of me with an MK9R and he has the std filter poking thru the bonnet with the top off and it looks a cows arse. If I were me I'd fabricate a nice one out of plastic but that's just me!
p.s. you should try an R1 Yam they're even worse! bloody vertical carbs!!

[Edited on 20/3/03 by locodude]

I can understand some people wanting to retain the standard air box and filter, but if you've any dosh to spare, or you're chasing more power, dump the thing.
The bikes are notoriously restricted because of the tiny air boxes, and the fact that they're just fed with a couple of little holes near the front of the bike.
The first thing I do, is find a hedge for the airbox, and make up a foam filter. The engine then breathes loads more air, at all speeds, but, of course, does require re-jetting. More air and fuel equals more power.
You will need to keep the trumpets (if fitted), but the foam filter can be just about any shape, therefore clearing the bonnet and other obstacles.
If you can't afford a "kit", or a rolling road session, just up the main jets for starters, and do a few runs with an air/fuel ratio meter from a wrecker's, and a 3 wire (preheating) sensor from a suitable car. The most expensive part of the whole job, will be getting a threaded bung turned up for the oxygen sensor.
It won't give you outright hp and torque figures, but you'll be able to optimise the fueling of your engine for every gear, your driving style, altitude etc.
How many people live or drive their car at the same altitude as their engine was rolling roaded? You don't really need to know the power figures either. All BECs go like poop off a shovel.

Jasper,

I can't believe that, i got the airfilter you can see on my site, and the new jets for £124 at xmas!!

Have you still got the receipt? Can you tell me what is says EXACTY... I can then ring them up and order those specific parts and see what they say...

and Rorty, thanks for in info....

MK9R + Jasper,

I called TTS yesterday and the bird on the blower said for a fireblade the filter was £81 + VAT and the jet kit was £90 + VAT. From the picture on their site the filter doesn't look all that and for that money didn't look worth it.

Stuart and I said "b**ger that" and instead I've just ordered two Pipercross trumpet sock style air filters from Burton (code C1153) for £12.72 + VAT each. They are 50mm high and are listed for 40 DCOE's but hopefully they'll be ok.

We'll then be buying a dynojet kit from a local bike retailer and then finding a local rolling road for optimum setup.

As Rorty says more air = more power

Waaaaaahhhhhhh!!!

Cheers andy

Let me know if the socks fit.

Rhino Dyno in Croydon set-up a mates racing bikes, and he know's a chap around the corner with a car RR he can use with his bike software.

BTW what are where are Burton's??



[Edited on 21/3/03 by Jasper]

[Edited on 21/3/03 by Jasper]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jasper
BTW what are where are Burton's??

---

if you search the pics you will see a pic of my blade air box, cost, under £5.

Yeah but Jon we don't have your talent

none involved, folded ally, blade filter, job done, bonnet on , no buldge, n rollers say it works too..........

Well as Rorty has said, the more air + fuel the bigger power. Not that I think we'll be disappointed with how she'll run but it's always nice to have a little in reserve

Jasper,

sorry destroyed the reciept incase the missus found it. Just to makesure we are talking about the same jet kit, all that came in ours were the 4 main jets (see hints and tips page on web site for picture). Maybe they made a balls up?? They did say that a blade jet kit was more expensive as there were more parts in the jet kit.

I have to agree that £80 for the filter and plate is a bit pricey when you actually look at waht you get, but it does look (and sound) good!

When I was at Stuart Taylor's 2 weeks ago I asked about rejetting the carbs and Ian Gray said to either speak to TTS and ask for his usual jets to suit the zx9r, or just to run the car to a rolling road and get it all set up.

From what I can see the £90 TTS quote is for a Dynojet kit which comes with 2 sets of main jets, needles, instructions and a selection of drills and tools to do the job. If you look on holeshot racing's site they quote £90 for the Dynojet kit plus another £90 for labour and dyno time to set it up, all plus VAT. If you are paying for the kit you would think fitting it yourself before the rolling road session would be cheaper. Also if it only comes with two options on jet sizes then it won't take much work to decide which are best.

I think I'm going to fit a Dynojet kit and sock type filters and then have it set up at a later date when I've saved the money!

Jon, I'd have to buy a blade filter as well, and if it's a K&N then it's gonna be £50. The ZX9 filter is just too huge to use.

I may as well go for the socks as they are cheaper. I'm gonna have to re-jet whatever I do.

Well the Pipercross sock filters were delivered this morning as expected. The Burton Power catalogue said 50mm height. They looked taller than that! Turns out it's the internal measurement that they quote. The overall height is more like 80mm.

We tried them anyway and I've posted a picture here -> http://forum.locostbuilders.co.uk/xmb/photos/cgi-bin/showpic.pl?filter.jpg for those interested. Sorry about the size for those with dial-up. It'll take about a minute to d/load if you're using 28.8kbps modem.

The upshot is that they are too big so they'll be going back and I'll probably order the really flat PX600 one (C6001 - 40mm quoted total height) and a blank backing plate (C6006). It'll cost more (£67.45 + delivery) but hopefuly it'll fit better. Pity 'cause the sock filters were only £35.77 incl.

Oh well, yet more money spent and no further forward.

If anyone wants to see the PX600 filter fitted to something the have a look here -> http://www.striker1.plus.com/images/pic30011.jpg This guy has fitted one on an R1 engine in a striker. I think the R1 carbs are taller than most (someone posted this recently) and the striker does have a small bonnet bulge.

[Edited on 23/3/2003 by andyd]

Hey that looks nice and flat, let me know how it sits and they look gooood...

Jasper,

The ZX9 kit only requires the 4 new jets at £4 ish each and doesn't need new needles etc (according to TTS when i spoke to them). Thats why it only cost me 124 anyway.

Andy, has your new filter arrived? If it has could you do me a favour and measure vertically from the highest point on the carb to the top of the filter, so I can see if it fits.
Cheers
Jasper

It has arrived. It looks like it'll fit fairly well on ours but that's one job for tomorrow. I'll take some snaps later and post them here with the relevant measurements sometime tonight so you can see if it'll do for yours.

[Edited on 28/3/2003 by andyd]

sorry guys don't know much about this kinda thing but how come you need to go on a rolling road to test the air filters??? Also isn't it preferable to have them sticking out the bonnet as it will get better air flow??
I'm thinking of making one similar to jon ison's then putting a small scoop in the bonnet to get a bit more air and then when I have money get proper filters
Also do you have to get new jets? As I bought a zx9 and its only done about 5k miles so do you think I should still replace them??
Cheers Guys
P.s. getting my chassis in 2 weeks today!!!!!!!!

sorry guys don't know much about this kinda thing but how come you need to go on a rolling road to test the air filters???

Because it the amount of air coming into the engine changes (most aftermarket filters allow more air in) then the mixture will alter, so it will need to be re-jetted. The best and most accuarate (and most expensive!) is on a roading road.


Also isn't it preferable to have them sticking out the bonnet as it will get better air flow??

As long as there is preferably cool air reaching the carbs then's it's fine. Don't worry about the 'ram-air' effect on the bike airbox, I've spoken to a couple of tuners who reacon this doesn't amount to much. Some of us dont like bonnet bulges/scoops so try to keep it all inside .

I'm thinking of making one similar to jon ison's then putting a small scoop in the bonnet to get a bit more air and then when I have money get proper filters.

Forget trying to make an airbox to fit the ZX9 filter, it is huge and triangular shaped, not the small neat rectangular shape of the blade one. You'll only do this if your happy to have it through the bonnet, and even then it will be hard to make it look pretty.

Also do you have to get new jets? As I bought a zx9 and its only done about 5k miles so do you think I should still replace them??

Jets don't get worn (as far as I know!). They only need replacing if the mixture changes, ie if you get a different more free-flowing filter

Cheers Guys
P.s. getting my chassis in 2 weeks today!!!!!!!!

they are all nearly ready! need to get the old sierra trailling arms of the rear axles but I need to borrow a big socket set of a friend up at the pub to remove the hubs also need to get the sierra prop shaft shortened. but thats about it apart from obtaining a manual steering rack today or next week and new front hubs from a 2wd sierra and mabye new rear ones too if i can get them But as I am unable to drive on the road I have to get lifts from people the whole time (or cycle )
cheers ben

[Edited on 29/3/03 by Ben 4x4 Shepperd]