Hi as some of you may have seen form the other threads her I am building a digital dash and shift lights for some of the other builders hear. I am well on in the development of theas items and built them in a manor so that they could be used on hi revving bike engines as that is what I plan to use for my build.

However I got to thinking last night about a push button gear shift system with a display to tell you what gear you are in. anyway I wrote and tested the code for this last night and will go to buy the hardware this weekend if any one is interested in such a device them I will complete the development. The cost for every thing including the solenoids looks like being around 20 quid + P&P. The only thing you might need to do is extend the leads to the solenoids to the from the control box.

Hi, very interested, in both the dash and the gear change system, i was going to develop one myself, however not to clued up in this respect. Please keep me updated. My e-mail is warren@orbit.net.mt. I reside in Malta but i'm more than ready to ship the items over . Hope to hear from you soon.

Ceebmoj, if you can do it for that kinda money, there would be lots of people interested I'm sure.

Are you on the Yahoo BEC list yourself, if so, ask about interest on there, if not then gimme a shout and I'll post it on your behalf

Chris

Just sent you a u2u. very interested in push button shift. May be in two of them as have two Mk Blades in the family

Cheers

Jim

no I am not on the yahoo bec page could you post up ther for me to you give me a link if you have to sine up could you post up fo me then when I have a spar 5 mins I will join up

what is the expected lead time on one of these systems. Are you putting in a mechanism for selection of neutral or will a solid linkage still be required for this.

ceebmoj, link is Here, probably better if you post it yourself to be honest cos otherwise they'll all ask me questions about it and I wont have the foggiest idea for an answer!

Chris

[Edited on 20/5/03 by ChrisGamlin]

To answer the questions

The lead time will be about two weeks for the following reasons

postage I have a prototype on my desk now witch I used to develop the code + hardware I will however not sell this device as it incorporates my PIC development board.

So if I get a confirmed order I will go and buy the bits this weekend to build the first production model. Witch will take a couple of hours to put to gether

What you get

You will receive 2 solenoids, one black box, some wires, one 7 segment led display and a CD.

The CD will contain the documentation for the device and a piece of software witch will allow you to tune the gear change to your likening i.e. adjust the shift time and the auto down change at power on (described later).

installation

1. To install the device you mount the control box under the bonnet connect the red power lead to a fused on with first click of the key 12V supply and connect the black wire to ground and plug the supply in to the control box.

2.Mount the up and down change buttons and run the cable back to the box and plug the connector in to the socket on the control box.

3.Mount the up and LED display and run the cable back to the box and plug the connector in to the socket on the control box.

1,2,3 may all use a common multi way plug not sure yet.

4. Mount the solenoids on a plate so one solenoid is either side of the gear change leaver on the bikes box and connect up the plug to the control box.

Operation

When software operates in one of two modes. (feed back is apreasheated)

1. Basic mode when you turn the key a 0 apers on the display if you press the clutch and then press the up button the display will show a 1 and the box will have changed in to first. If you pres the up button again the box will change up one gear and display 2 on the display. If you press the down button the box will down shift and display 1 again pressing a second time will put you back in to neutral and display 0 on the display

2. Advanced mode in this operation the box will operate in exactly the same way for gear changing with one exception. When you switch on the ignition the display will show a ‘C’ the driver the pushes the clutch peddle and then presses both the up and down buttons. The box will then automatically down change 6 times to ensure the box is in neutral. 0 will then be displayed on the display and the system will work as described in 1.

I will not post a thread on another forum until the first person has received the device had a go with it then they can tell you all what they think.

Sounds great to me, I'll be wanting one once I've got a bike engine. One think I'd like to see as a feature it to be able to link it to a rev limiter so that it changes up at rev limit.

Kingr

as the control box has no control at present on the clutch and the box would need to change at the rpm when a clutchless change is posible.

also this would take longer to implement and I have a number of other projects on the list to compleat befor I would start on one that worked like this.

However I have alltedy built a system that lights the leds as the rmp increases ala f1

Im interested in this gear change system too. Ill have one but id like to wait to see how other people get on with them. Sounds very good tho especially for the price.

Can you make it to blip the throttle on the downshifts
?

It wouldn't have to be that complicated, there's a product called techtronics that will automatically blip the throttle when you upshift (or downshift if you prefer, but not both without buying two), so it's just a case of getting it to bang it up a gear when suitable input is recieved from the rev limiter, it could probably be done without any changes to your current system by just using a relay to close the upshift switch circuit, but there's probably a neater way. Just a suggestion, all sounds great, and if it all works as well as it sounds, then you could be selling quite a lot.

Kingr

hi it would not be that hard to implement a clutch less system i.e. you push the up button or the down button and the system gets on with it however I have some other projects I have to get done for other people before I can start on it but if that is wanted I will build one when I have finished the digital dash system (or possibly integrate the functionality I to that).

I have got one confirmed order now so what I will do is get the item out to Jim and the let him install it e can then tell you all what he thinks give me some feed back then I will make any necessary changes and put them up for all if you are still interested after you have herd what Jim has to say about the device just watch this space for more information.

I will post some picks after the weekend and put up a proper instruction manual.

Some of you have been mentioning relays for the changing system. However I am using transistor (igfets) switching as it allows a faster switch time. Also there are know moving parts to fail and the hole lot will be smaller.

ceebmoj, I am sure I posted this earlier but it doesnt seem to have happened...

Anyway, I hope Im not going to be a party pooper and spoil all this, but just bear in mind that a bike gearbox doesnt have neutral below 1st gear as your description above regarding the basic/advanced change seems to suggest. IE its:

1 - N - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6

Therefore, to get the solenoids to get to neutral, you need it to shift down 5 times (not 6), and then up half a shift to get neutral, as you can only select neutral once you are in first, you cant come down to it from second, so makes the electronics a bit more fiddly than a simple straight up / straight down configuration.

Chris

Hi ceebmoj, for that price i want one too, how should i get the payment out to you, could you please check how much postage will cost to Malta, so i can pay for this too. Thanx P.S. for an upsift a slight cut in power is required, one could link an input to the ECU of the bike which usually goes to the stand swith this will cut the sparks and cause the moment of power drop required for clutchless up shifts, anyway just a thought, cant experiment with this as i have a generic programable ECU not a bike unit.

Just adding to the above, the way a bike box is laid out, you will need to work out how to configure the buttons/controller so it knows when to upshift from first into neutral, and when to upshift from first into second, and also how the digital gear indicator will keep track of it all.

A few guys have built their own gear indicators on the BEC list and I seem to recall it causing them headaches too, but Im not electronics wizz so cant tell you why or how they overcame it Im afraid.

cheers

Chris

So if you where in your car BEC car and pusing the change leaver forward changes up a gear and puling back is down a gear.

To get neutral from third you pull back three times then push forward once.

To get from neutral to third do you push the change leaver forw3ard three times or pull back once then push forward twice.

If some one could help me with this it would be greatly appreciated. The only BEC I have driven is the GT1 and I have no idea if I was ever in neutral. I was grinning to much. All I did was change up and down the box a bit while being mightily impressed.

Hi ceebmoj, on my car, I pull back to go up a gear, push forward to go down a gear, the other way round to what you said above, but it doesnt matter, Ill just explain it the way I do it on mine.

The gearbox is set out like this, as shown before

1 - N - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6

To get From "3" to "N", I would push forward twice (A & B which is 3rd to 2nd, then 2nd to 1st) then pull back slightly to then get into neutral (C)

..C
./...
1 - N - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6
.____/.../
.....B......A

Remember you can only ever get into neutral from 1st gear.

To get from "N" to "3", I would have to push forward once (A - to go into 1st) then pull back 2 times (B & C - into 2nd then into 3rd).

..A
./...
1 - N - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6
.____/.../
.....B......C

As long as you pull back firmly when going from 1st to 2nd, you will miss Neutral. You cannot pull back from Neutral and go straight into second either.

HTH

Chris

[Edited on 21/5/03 by ChrisGamlin]

[Edited on 21/5/03 by ChrisGamlin]

Ok thanks a lot for the help that will be a quick change to the code this evening half an hour or so but not to bad thanks for taking the time to explain it also probably means I never when in to neutral when driving the GT1.

As I am using solenoids to change the gear I will gust use a shorter pulse to get in to neutral from first.


I will leave the operation of the inter face the same i.e. If you are in neutral and want to get to 3rd press the up button 3 times. If you are in 3rd and want to be in neutral press the down button 3 times. And the processor will just work the box as described above in your post.

The reason for doing this is it saves having to have some other input to select neutral.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Remember you can only ever get into neutral from 1st gear.

---

i can also go from N to 2 on my x5 powered kart but its not somthing that i do very often if ever.

Hmm, you might be right then, I just always go into first (probably cos then you KNOW where neutral is), and then half a click back. I wont see the car for a week or so to check it, so if someone can confirm this is the case on a blade too?

I can go into 2nd from neutral. Infact the first time I drove it I did this and wonder why it was a bit slow setting off

Jim

Ah OK I was thinking the other way, as in 2nd gear into neutral, not sure if you can do this or not?
ceebmoj, probably best to program the changer not to allow second to be selected straight from neutral anyway tho, there is no reason you'd wanna start off in second.

Chris

As an experienced bike racer, who has driven most makes of bike box Neutral is normally in between 1st and 2nd irrespective from which side you shift so one can always shift into neutral from both 1st and 2nd the same is true for shiffting outta neutral. ceebmoj any update on how much it will cost to ship it out to malta as i definitley want a system too. P.S. if the 1st to 2nd shift isn't made hard enough under hard load bike gearboxes can "jump outta gear and into neutral. Is there any opinon on my post of using the Kick Stand input on the ECU in order to get a momentary pause in power enabling a perfect clutchless upshift.

Hi

The state of play right now for the device

In this first version there will be no form of rev control it will simply select the gear. The system will only go through the box in the following sequence 0-1-2-3-4-5-6 it will no go from 0-2 or 2-0 only 2-1-0.

I will get the first one posted of to Jim early next weak and let him install it on his car then if he is willing to I will ask him to post a breaf review of his findings hear then you can all base your judgment on what he says of the device. I will then if you are all still interested start to sell the devices to any one who is interested.

Postage to Malta I have not checked yet but I don’t see it being any thing more than 10 at the absolute max although I have not checked.

Hi Ceebmoj, how should i send the cash to you. As i would like a system asap.

Thanks in Advance

Glen

Another interested party here, shift lights and gear change.

Cheers

Ben

Would love to purchase one of these and try on my CBR 1000 engined MK. PLEASE GET IN TOUCH IT SOUNDS GREAT.

Ian

ceebmoj, not sure if this diagram will help you at all, if you're not registered on the Yahoo BEC list I think you might have to register in order to get at the file, its basically a wiring diagram for a gear indicator system.

Chris

if the system workes i will deffinetly have one off you

excuse the spelling im having one of those days

Hi this is just a quick up date for any one who is interested.

I will be posting the first device out by the end of the weak with any luck to Jim he has said that he will fit it to his car and then Wright up a short review of what he thinks of the device then if you are all still interested I will take orders and build up some more for sending out. I will be as keen as the rest of you to see what he has to say.

However unfortunately the price has crept up since I originally posted hear with the idea. We are now looking at a cost of £40 + P&P with out the solenoids witch should cost in the region of £3~4 for both of them from a scrap yard (SARB 900 starter motor 1990)

The cost has risen for several reason but mainly because the sockets that I planed to use have gone up in price but coupled with a number of other components being more expensive than I remembered them being. Witch brought the total manufacturing cost up to £30. I have then added on £10 for the time it takes me to build the device witch is around 3 hours for the hardware and a one off 10 houres for the software development.

I hope that the raid in cost will not put any of you off two much and I hope that if after jim has tested the device you are all still interested.

Still Interested.

Ian

Any follow up on this?

I am interested to read about Jim's review on this as I am about to build my own BEC.

Hi all

I have had a number of problems sourcing components (I received the wrong order of PICs twice this is very unusual). however I now have very thing together and I will be posting this to Jim this weekend so with any luck he should receive every thing during next weak some time.

Hopefully he will like what he gets and then I can make any improvements that he recommends to me. I have also get a web sight together so I will be ready to take orders if and when it passes jims approval.

Once again I am sorry for all the delays.

So how did all this work out? Any news?

Ted

Smelt a bit iffy from the off to me(i'm not paranoid its just everyone says i am).

Ceebmoj, did you not build a system like this for the two bike engined cars you have already built??

Or am I wrong?

Cheers
JC

Hi

I built one for Jim who last time I spoke to him was happy with the results (was 4 or 6 months ago) I believe he started a thread on hear or maybe he just posted in this thread about the results. Either way he seamed happy with the results. From what he was saying to me he left the manual shift connected as well as adding the electronic system as he found with his gear box it some times had problems selecting neutral.

I have also used them on two other cars witch have now been sold and the new owners seem happy with the system. Although this was on the previous design witch used an industrial servo instead of solenoids. (I am considering going back to this system as you get guaranteed selection of neutral) although the servo is significantly more expensive then the two solenoids.

I am at present putting another one together for another user of this web sight who should get the system early in January so I guess that when he finishes his car he can comment on what he thinks.

I am happy to make more however as I think I sad before it is more convenient if I can make a batch of 3 or more rather than doing them in 1s as I can then justify making a PCB as opposed to a strip board model. also as there is now a shortage 90-91 SARB 900’s (very easy to remove the starter motor and hence the solenoid) and other SARBs as they use the same BOSH starter motor (cant remember the part number at present) I would have difficulty’s getting all the solenoids at a good price. You do not have to use the solenoids on the SARB however they are convenient size and have about a 4 cm travel and a limit switch built in. however I have been looking in to a ford replacement as the circuit is designed to power any solenoid that pulls up to a 30A sustained current so if any body else has any other ideas for a source for the solenoids out the drop me a line.

Last time I looked a 91 SARB 900 starter motor cost £20 from the local scrappy.

Also if any one is interested it is 50 for the system + either 6 P&P for a non insure delivery as a parcel or + P&P for any other type of postage you want. I would recommend using an insured or traceable option for postage having recently had a parcel go missing.

Blake