On the track, is there much difference between the Fireblade and ZX12R? So you're at high revs the entire time. How is it with laptimes? And how is the difference in feel and experience? Does the ZX12R give a massive more accelerationfeeling?

as biased as they often are , i think team hellfire may be in a good position to answer this having used both in their cars.

you could drop them a u2u, but i'm sure one of them will be along shortly
tom

What is their member id?

That would be "Hellfire".

john.

zx12r pulls like a bullet from a gun

It really depends on the type of track but with just one person on board, there isn't a great deal of difference between the Fireblade and the ZX12R. There is however most definitely a difference and the ZX12R is certainly the quicker car around most tracks due to having more low and mid-range grunt but keep the blade above 6,000rpm and it is quite a capable engine.

I can't quote direct comparable lap times because unfortunately we only managed a couple of trackdays in the blade engined Indy and we haven't driven the exact same circuit in the ZX12R.

The difference between the two is more noticeable on the road and with two up on track. The ZX12R is much more driveable and has a better power delivery throughout the entire rev range. To give you some idea of acceleration, the ZX12R will do the quarter mile in approx 12.5 seconds compared to 13.3 for a 954cc Blade.

So, as you might gather from the above, the difference between the two isn't massive but it is quite significant.

Phil

The thing is I'm looking for a kitcar for driving pleasure. I'm used to fast cars, around 400hp. So I might not be impressed by the accelerationfeel of a Fireblade. The trouble is that in Holland I can not get a testdrive except when I bring cash to buy the car. This way I can not make a well thought decision about what kitcar I want. I only got one at the Westfield dealer here in a MegaBusa, but they didn't want to go over 6.000 RPM because of the cold weather. A bit weird since the grip was there, but anyway because of this I still have no idea if a BEC would please me. The Westfield didn't really impress me, but I have no idea how the car feels over 6k rpm. Is the feeling below 6k rpm in a Hayabusa somewhat comparible to a Fireblade at high revs?

[Edited on 16/12/07 by Aico]

Wel i owned a zx12r indy and that was quick till you got over the 6500 rpm then it was absolutly insane.....!!!!!!!

Iam also dutch so you can mail me i've you want.....

Daniel

Ive had a carbed blade and an injected R1 in my car, and have also driven busa powered BECs which care comparable to a ZX12.

IMHO on the track there's a reasonable difference between a blade and busa above 80mph or so, but below that the difference in acceleration is not a lot. The R1 sits somewhere in the middle of that, but is closer to the busa than it is to the blade IMHO.

If you look at the RGB lap times for class C (blade) and class A (busa / ZX12 etc) there's only a couple of seconds in it on longer circuits like Cadwell, and less on shorter circuits, even taking into account the slightly less restrictive rules in class A (splitters allowed, and also wider rims).

Put it this way, a quick driver in a blade will still beat a reasonably quick driver in a busa, but if you plan to be doing lots of high speed driving on fast open tracks etc, then the bigger capacity engines will be the better bet.

quote:

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Originally posted by Aico
The thing is I'm looking for a kitcar for driving pleasure. I'm used to fast cars, around 400hp. So I might not be impressed by the acceleration feel of a Fireblade.
[Edited on 16/12/07 by Aico]

---

you will be impressed

As above, a BEC does'nt get going until it hits 7000 rev's plus, mine's only 900cc's and it can still keep me on my toes.

If you watched the Race of Champions on Sky Sports today (or watch the repeat on Eurosport tomorrow) you might get a reasonable idea of how quick a BEC is. The ROC Buggies are bike engine'd (Blackbird I think) and weigh about 475kgs. Around the ROC track at Wembley they were pretty much as quick as anything including WRC cars and 400bhp Aston GT cars (yes I know the tight track suits them but anyway )

http://www.raceofchampions.com/cars,20.html

Do they do road legal one's of them.

I think they're one-offs built a few years ago specifically for the event, might be wrong though

And Chris, they had tyres more suited to snow than slick tarmac.........

That a BEC is fast 0-60 I know. Any kitcar is that basicly. What matters to me is what feeling do you get when accelerating from 60-100. Does it still accelerate fast looking at air resistance? When on the highway/track or Ring the speeds rarely drop below 50. Here in Holland the roads are totally different from The UK. You have B roads, but we don't have that here. The tracks here are also bigger.

[Edited on 16/12/07 by Aico]

If you are chasing 60-100mph times then buy something with a slippery shape and as much power as you can afford. There's no debate to be had if you can afford the faster motor.

Chris, would be interested in knowing how you've come to the conclusions you have? I know a lot of rubbish is bandied about regarding BEC acceleration which I too have argued against in the past to add a bit of realism, but 10s 60-100? Surely you've seen better than that yourself on the drag strip?

Over a standing quarter Ive managed 0-110mph in 12.9s in mine (R1 BEC) and have seen ZX12s/busas go quicker than that, so that's around 0-100 in ~10s and to 60 in just over 4, which equates to a ~6s 60-100 time.

cheers
Chris

Hi Chris

Yeh looking at my figures is why Im suprised with the figures you've seen. The quarter times you've mentioned seem in the right ballpark but the trap speeds appear unusually low to me. Busas and ZX12 Locaterfields Ive seen on the quarter have both hit between 112-115 trap, and mine when it had the blade in it managed 105 across the line (doing a 13.4). I don't know the accuracy of that particular timing beam but in both the blade and the R1, the speeds measured tied in with the revs / gear I was in over the line. The speeds also seem consistent with other cars that do similar standing quarter times, whereas a 13 dead at only 100mph seems unusually slow to me, even for a car with rubbish aero?

Also is it worth assuming that if the car did take 14s to get to 100mph then it probably wouldnt be getting to 60 in 4s?

Completely agree with the sentiments about get more power or better aero if high speed acceleration is the primary goal though, Im certainly not saying they're lightning quick at high speed

cheers

Chris

[Edited on 16/12/07 by ChrisGamlin]

We've run 12.5 secs quite a few times at York Raceway and at Santa Pod and never managed to achieve a trap speed in excess of 105mph.

Phil

What is a better shap kitcar? A Fury or SprintR or some kind of sportscar? Looking at my budget the only better shaped car I can think of is the Fury. Would this do it?

I think you should get a ride in one first

Yea I know But like I said before the kitcar companies here won't let me. Hopefully Smartripper can help me with that.

Sorry can't help you, one person have the engine out off his car......

The other is in sleeping mode.....over the winter period.

Maybe you can get a ride by the dutch MK importer Haselier in Echt.....

He got a mk with zx12r engine and more..

Daniel

quote:

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Originally posted by Hellfire
We've run 12.5 secs quite a few times at York Raceway and at Santa Pod and never managed to achieve a trap speed in excess of 105mph.

Phil

---

Knew Id seen a vid somewhere

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2649319141088435648

Here's a rather unscientific 0-100-0 by a standard Westie Megabusa, owned by a chap called Jeff (JeffC) on the WSCC. Gives a reasonable idea of the acceleration I think. Im sure Ive probably got some of mine doing 60-100 on a trackday somewhere accelerating out of a corner etc, not sure I'll be able to see the dash clear enough or not though.

[Edited on 17/12/07 by ChrisGamlin]

What about this one from the same site,

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=2993666940700123263

Clearly shows the grunt on any long straight with a 400hp V8 car engine

but who's in the lead 99% of the time!

Cheers
David

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Im sure Ive probably got some of mine doing 60-100 on a trackday somewhere accelerating out of a corner etc, not sure I'll be able to see the dash clear enough or not though.

---

Here's a couple Ive dug out of the footage Ive got, not particularly clear though unfortunately.

Cadwell Park Straight

Rockingham up onto the banking

Its a bit tricky to see the speedo in every frame (I assume due to some kind of refresh / framerate conflict?) but Ive dimmed the footage until it hits 60 and then dimmed it again when it hits 100 to show the bit Im looking at.

The first one at Cadwell is just under 6s from timing indivudual frames, Im hitting 60 before the corner exit so not accelerating in a straight line which can't help, but its slightly downhill there and I can't remember if I was one or two up so overall probably reasonably representative.

The Rockingham one is just under 7s but that's two up and if anything slightly up hill going onto the banking.

I just want to say that Im trying to cause an argument here chaps, as much as anything Im trying to convince myself that I haven't been mistaken all this time!

cheers
Chris

[Edited on 17/12/07 by ChrisGamlin]

Diff ratio also has a big effect on acceleration. Anyway I've been looking into it a lot and timewise it's not that big of a difference. The only difference now is to feel if the bigger bike engine blows me away above 60. If not then I might as well save me the extra 3-6k Pounds and go for the smaller engine. Thanks for all the help guys. BTW on google video you can also see 2 vids from Sweden. Westfield Busa vs R1.

It's about driving pleasure for me. Does the bigger engine blur my vision and give me a strong feeling in my stomach? If so then I will check if the Blade does the same or not so I can make a decision. If I don't get the same experience then I'll probably spend the extra cash for a bigger engine. I should be getting a ride here in Holland next week in a FJR 1300? Is that the Hayabusa?

To give an example. I've been looking into Elises aswell. Got a ride in a stock 120hp and a B&C 160hp. Torque/push in the back was stronger and the car was faster, but I could still think and see clearly. No stronger feeling in my stomach so then it's not worth the extra 3k Pounds for me.

[Edited on 17/12/07 by Aico]

I would have thought that you will not get a "blown away" feeling from a BEC considering the speeds you are talking.

What made you think you would like a BEC? Biking background or engine sound / power delivery?

I love my Blade powered car but I bought it for the twisty B roads and also Track Days in the UK which it is fantastic fun on. Acceleration out of corners, late braking points and handling characteristics make the BEC perfect for these situations.

However, for playing at the 60 - 100+mph speeds I would have thought that even a standard Scooby would give my car a run for it's money (or embaress me) because that's not what these are for. Also from cars you will have been used to I would even go so far as to say the top speed of the BEC will dissappoint you if that is where you are playing.

So as said what first made you look at a BEC and what would you like your car to offer you?

I want something raw to drive for fun. An open car because it increases the experience. Lightness for respons and less understeer. Cheap for repairs and parts. Maintanence and repairs are expensive for roadcars. Enginerebuild 3k. Chassis/metal damage in the thousands. Kitcars are cheaper and you can do most things yourself. Saves money. The sound of a BEC is also very nice as is the gearbox. I'm not going for top speed, but at most tracks here the speeds are higher. A lot of tracks in The UK are very small/low speed.

quote:

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Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Cadwell Park Straight

---

How about posting eachothers diff ratios here for comparision.

You could always go the BEC route and then fit a turbo. The additional rush will kick in where you want it, and will up BHP significantly.

Still not convinced that a 7 is the car you should be looking at though, as getting past the ton is always going to be a struggle (read cost more to upgrade the engine) in a car that looks a little like a brick.

Does TCing take away the experience/noise from the TB's? This is one of the fun factors N/A. How is this TCed?

I fear an RST-V8 may be your only option....

That's like 20k Pounds

quote:

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Originally posted by gingerprince

quote:

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Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Cadwell Park Straight

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That looks sped-up to me But if it's not I can only assume that you have much shorter diff ratio because that's significantly quicker than my blade, and I've never noticed such a difference against other blades on track.

[Edited on 18/12/07 by gingerprince]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aico
The thing is I'm looking for a kitcar for driving pleasure. I'm used to fast cars, around 400hp. So I might not be impressed by the accelerationfeel of a Fireblade.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aico
I'm not going for top speed, but at most tracks here the speeds are higher. A lot of tracks in The UK are very small/low speed.

---

My last car was a R32 GTR. The weight didn't do it for me. Powerwise is was ok (370), but not as fast as I would like to have. The speedo rocketed, but there was no blur in my vision. This is what I'm looking for. If I don't get this with a Hayabusa then I will just go for a cheaper engine. As you people say I probably will get overwhelmed by the acceleration of a Fireblade, but so far I couldn't get a ride anywhere. The only reason I'm a bit sceptical about this is because there is no blur in the GTR. Normally you do in such a car. Spa is maybe one of the quicker tracks in the world? The straights are very long. I mainly want to Ring it since it's open so many times a year. You get to see nice cars etc. The thing is I also saw a few vids about a Rush Busa turbo (300) and everything else seemed to be standing still. This contradicts the V8 Westfield against the Megabusa video. www.daxrush.comdax

[Edited on 18/12/07 by Aico]

You can't compare a busa turbo with a standard motor. If your local outfits are too useless to sort you out with a proper ride then maybe you should make the effort and get over here? A few euros for the plane would put an end to a lot of speculation.

I think you will be hard pushed to get a much quicker car, and if the bec doesn't blur your vision what will you do?

Ok you could go pay silly amount for a ultima, but you pay peanuts....

Why not come over to the UK in spring and arrange a few test drives? Or you could ask nicely on hear - i'm sure if you prmised to say you had blurred vision I'm sure a few on hear would take you for a spin.

Beaten to it!!

[Edited on 18/12/07 by Dangle_kt]

I would end that speculation within first gear we have a demo car your welcome anytime to see if you like

Ill even turn the nitrous oxide on if I dont scare you

A friend of mine has a ~300bhp busa turbo and it is unsuprisingly no comparison in a straight line, last time I actually went out in it, it was on a low boost setting of around 250bhp and it was still a league quicker than any other BEC (or car full stop) I've been in

I am wondering if anything can be done to improve aerodynamics of a seven?

quote:

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Originally posted by zxrlocost
I would end that speculation within first gear we have a demo car your welcome anytime to see if you like

Ill even turn the nitrous oxide on if I dont scare you

---

of course eddie infact your name would go quite well as the test driver eve keneve and crazie eddie its got a ring to it

Is anyone going to a trackday within the next month? The thing is I don't think I can wait till spring. I've thought about getting a kitcar for about 1-2 years now. Now I actually have the money and sold all my normal cars to get a kitcar. The thing that disappointed me about normal cars is basicly the repair and tunings costs. I just seem to break down any car. Anyway I should be able to get a ride here in Holland at the MK importer. This is my last hope for Holland. If that doesn't go through then the only option is to go to The UK. If I make the costs then it would be nice if it was on a trackday. ANyone going to one within the next month or so?

If my car is ready then I have a day booked at Oulton Park on 19th Jan. It will be the first outing after the R1 engine has been fitted and many other things changed so all may not go to plan but you'd be welcome to come and have a ride. It will be very cold.

My Blade is booked in at Oulton too but on 25th Jan and 28th Feb if that is any help

Edited to add: Jubal are you going on 25th Jan as well?

[Edited on 19/12/07 by Crazy Eddie]

[Edited on 19/12/07 by Crazy Eddie]

Is that close to Liverpool? Could you pick me up at the airport?

It's about 45mins away from Liverpool airport and about 25mins away from Manchester Airport.

Unfortunately as far as my travelling goes I will be coming from the other way and at a starting time of 830ish I'm always running late as is

quote:

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Edited to add: Jubal are you going on 25th Jan as well?

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I best do a pre shake down on your car derek

Indeed. Or get it right first time

Jubal - did I mee t you with Chris @ the BEC centre?

shakedowns in a kit car sound scary - prob not if you do it each week though i guess

quote:

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Originally posted by Kriss
Jubal - did I mee t you with Chris @ the BEC centre?

shakedowns in a kit car sound scary - prob not if you do it each week though i guess

---

yes you met

it will work right first time derek

for me

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aico
Is anyone going to a trackday within the next month? The thing is I don't think I can wait till spring. I've thought about getting a kitcar for about 1-2 years now. Now I actually have the money and sold all my normal cars to get a kitcar. The thing that disappointed me about normal cars is basicly the repair and tunings costs. I just seem to break down any car. Anyway I should be able to get a ride here in Holland at the MK importer. This is my last hope for Holland. If that doesn't go through then the only option is to go to The UK. If I make the costs then it would be nice if it was on a trackday. ANyone going to one within the next month or so?

---

I only know of 4 companies here in Holland. Speedon was the first I went to, but no joy. After much asking etc I got a ride in the trike, but not I ride I asked for. Basicly 0-60 and that's it. Yes it was fast, but any kitcar is fast in that range. I asked for 50-100 on the highway, braking and cornering. I got nothing of the above which I asked for up front. So I couldn't decide if I wanted it, thinking about the unstability of a trike. Then he blames me for not making up my mind and not buying the trike or any other kitcar. No more testdrives, if you can even call it that. I didn't experience much to make up my mind and a few months later I got the money needed so I contacted Furysportscars.

Seemed nice, but on the day we wanted to meet I called him that I was underway and he suddenly gets frustrated with me out of the blue. He said he talked to speedon and he told bad things about me about only taking testdrives and not being serious about getting one. While it was only 1 sort of testdrive. The kitcarworld in Holland is very small. The Fury dealer treated me like I was a conman, he even used the words "I don't like to be abused". That's a pretty heavy reaction. For him it's a hobby that's gone out of control so he started a business in kitcars. Driving a kitcar is a hobby for him and taking me as a passenger for 1 day suddenly makes it abuse?

So then I went to Westfield and I got a ride, but only below 6k RPM because of the cold weather. This also didn't answer my questions. All the kitcardealers are on the other side of Holland so driving there takes like 2 hours average. I forgot about the MK dealer and it seems I can get a ride there so thanks for the tip. We shall see how that goes. I'll let you guys know. Looking at my past experiences my hopes are not high. I'm already having nightmares about getting at the MK dealership and then get send away because I won't buy the car or a kit.

quote:

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Originally posted by Aico
I'm already having nightmares about getting at the MK dealership and then get send away because I won't buy the car or a kit.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jubal

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aico
I'm already having nightmares about getting at the MK dealership and then get send away because I won't buy the car or a kit.

---

TBH, I can sympathise with them a little bit. I bet there are loads of tyre kickers out there. There are in our game and I only sell computer networks and phone systems!

Not that I'm accusing you of being one, but it must be hard for these chaps to sift the wheat from the chaff. You perhaps need to motivate them a little better than you have done? Maybe offer to do a deal on the day if they do what you want regards the test ride/drive?

---

yeah, but he is asking for a 100mph trip in a kitcar on the public highway. What company will happily agree to breaking the law? Let alone with no gauentee of a sale.

I can see where the guy is coming from, but I can't help feeling as I read more, that he wants the worlds fastest car, with 100% reliabilty for a few grand, and a months free test drive at the 'ring thrown in during the middle of winter to check if it's the right thing before commiting to anything.

The real world is, that aint gonna happen, the kit car will not be the fastest thing out there unless your talking silly money, it wil definatly not be reliable (what stupidly fast car is?) and it certainly won't be cheap.

I dont mean to be rude, but I just wanted to be realistic other wise the OP will be dreaming all the way to every kit car manufacture in the UK, not buying anything and so wasting both their and his time and money.

I think asking nicely for a passenger ride on a trackday is your best bet, but being the UK it will not have the long straights you mention.

In fairness, I haven't read the whole thread - I'll reel my neck back in!

'Night folks!

quote:

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Originally posted by TimC
In fairness, I haven't read the whole thread - I'll reel my neck back in!

'Night folks!

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quote:

---

I think asking nicely for a passenger ride on a trackday is your best bet, but being the UK it will not have the long straights you mention.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jubal
I don't know what you do for a living Tim but if it involves trying to qualify where to spend your limited time to best benefit without having it wasted you would have understood first time round.

---

I now charge £10 for a demo ride

you get it knocked off if you buy a car

Im now in this line of business and slowly but surely more people are coming to my unit and they all want to go out in the car there really interested theyve got the money there mates told them etc etc

its the only way forward Im afraid

if your genuinely interested youll pay the £10

its unfair to people who have paid me to work on there car that I spend half that day taking people out in a car unless like I say the genuine interest is there

Actually - I think that's a nice idea Chris.

I agree that as a business you are free to do what you want. Give a testdrive or not is up to them, but I really dislike the bad talk about me. Especially since it's not true. In general it's not nice to talk about and to people that way and it's basicly offensive. To do this as a business against (potential) customers doesn't improve the relationship. Even if I don't buy a car from them, but from the UK the car would need repairs, parts etc. If I don't need to I won't go to them anymore. Not willing to give a testdrive if I don't buy a kitcar or a kit from them is fine. I'm only asking and not demanding, but you should still treat customers with some respect.

Kitcars are expensive. You should not forget it's like 6k Pounds for a car simply for fun. Pure luxeryproduct with no other meaning that to drive it. You must be crazy to get one, but I am one of those people. In Holland the prices are even higher. For a 5k BEC in the UK you pay about 8k in Holland for the exact same car. This is mainly the reason I haven't bought one here in Holland. It's just the big margin the companies use here. I'm better of importing it myself and I already done a few normal cars from the UK. Apart from transport it's mainly paperwork so it's very easy. This way I save about 2k Pounds. A no brainer.

What is a kitcar like? There is no way comparing it to any other car. The only way to know is to have a drive in it. As a passenger is good enough. I definatly understand they won't let me drive and I even ask for only a passenger ride. Make no mistake the speedlimit is no problem for them. With the 2 drives that I got they went up to 70mph or so within the city and I didn't even ask for it. I even dislike doing that looking at the dangers. The speedlimit on the highway in Holland is 80mph. A run there to 90-100mph is without dangers. I can even pay for the ticket since it's affordable.

Anyway I'll just buy one from the UK and be done with it. There are 2 choices at the moment on Pistonheads that I have. A CEC Fury or a BEC Westfield. The CEC has a turbo so no lack of power. The BEC has around 140hp. Has anyone driven both a Fury and a Seven type car? Is there a difference in driving experience? Is the Fury less extreme because you are/feel more protected/sealed by the car? How about the power? If you are using semi-slick tyres will you be able to use the power of the turbo CEC? It has around 260hp. The final gear is very long a 3.1.

I am used to driving cars of 400bhp too, I had a subaru P1 running at 350bhp until I blew it up at Elvington after just being remapped it was running in high 12s then, but the engine let go! I put a 2.5 block in it, bigger turbo all the extras etc... cost me thousands ! tunning and mapping.

I reached a point where the expense was getting rediculous, so I decided to go and buy myself a BEC with a blade engine. I haven't driven my BEC yet as it is with Chris having work done on it. I don't expect it to be as quick on the top end, but acceleration wise I should imagine it will be quite similar upto a ton. If it is ready for any of these dates mentioned above for Oulton Park, I shall be there with it. I didn't bother with a test drive simple reason there has been lots of times that I have seen on a track how the BEC's have handled and accelerated, I thought I would just get myself a reasonable priced 2nd hand one and get use to the car over 12 mths, because it is a totally different drive to what I have been use to in the past. Once I get use to the power and handeling of the BEC, it will be going back to Chris for an engine upgrade. I am sure that the power will be enough for the tracks here in the UK and I'm not out to win any championshipships just to attend as many track days as possible and have some fun for a reasonable price. I'm sure that a tenner for a test drive in Chris's car will be money well spent ! Look forward to seeing you if you can make it over to Oulton Park. If my cars not ready by then I will be a spectator armed with my camera and I will gladly give anyone a tenner for a go round the track

quote:

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Originally posted by TimC

What an absurd comment to make. As it happens, I've spent the majority of the last ten years apportioning finite resources in a planning environment. This has in no way affected my view that any seller worth his/her salt will work hard to understand the needs of a potential buyer and make every effort to match the benefits (as opposed to features) of a particular product choice to these needs.

[Edited on 22/12/07 by TimC]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jazz

I reached a point where the expense was getting rediculous, so I decided to go and buy myself a BEC with a blade engine. I haven't driven my BEC yet as it is with Chris having work done on it. ..... Look forward to seeing you if you can make it over to Oulton Park. If my cars not ready by then I will be a spectator armed with my camera and I will gladly give anyone a tenner for a go round the track

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Yes thats my car! I will definatly be at Oulton Park, with or without it depending on how Chris gets on with it.
Great video clip, in fact they all are I've watched a few of them now, thanks to you guys for posting, hopefully I will have some myself next season.
I will come over and say hello thanks very much!

My Caterham 7 busa (1396cc Mistral tuned) did a 12.0006 QTR at 117.2mph. I also have a Caterham fireblade (918cc), by comparison that feels dead slow!

quote:

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Originally posted by DSLI also have a Caterham fireblade (918cc), by comparison that feels dead slow!

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChrisGamlin

quote:

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Originally posted by DSLI also have a Caterham fireblade (918cc), by comparison that feels dead slow!

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Now there's a surprise, you'd never imagine the best part of twice the power would feel lots quicker

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It was for the benefit of the chap asking if a blade engined seven was likely to feel sufficently quick, smart arses

I have a car with a Suzuki 1000cc K6 engine in it that will distroy the Busa powered Seven, recording 0-60 in less than 2.8sec. but thats not road legal & has only one seat

quote:

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Originally posted by DSL
It was for the benefit of the chap asking if a blade engined seven was likely to feel sufficently quick, smart arses

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