Is very subjective. What's your budget ? Have you got a full car or have you just bought an engine ? I like the oem ecu as its very cheap and no mapping. I haven't done a proper Durtec yet and your not that far away.
I'm just planning my Pinto to Duratec conversion this winter and I need to think about what would be a sensible choice for the ECU (without
breaking the bank).
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Megasquirt, cheapest and the best!
Www.baileyperformance.co.uk
Turnkey Efi installation (using stock inlet) £1200 all in.
Watching this with interest as duratec a possible engine for my next project.
Excuse my ignorance as I'm not clued up on ecus but is a home built component ecu really better than say omex, mbe, emerald etc? Surely these
companies must spend lots of money on R and D for their products? (Or was the mega squirt is best comment more tongue in cheek?)
Steve
We have mapped omex, emerald, Mbe and others and prefer megasquirt.
Megasquirt is very flexible and the turning software if very good.
We've mapped 50+ megasquirts on all sorts if engines, as the hardware and code if open to all there are thousands of testers and developers
proving every aspect, hardware and software bugs are quickly sorted. That's not to say there is anything wrong with the other Ecu manufacturers
but you get more for your money with MS.
Hi we use DTA on ours have 2 duratecs running on them 1 road 1 race and have been spot on.
I can vouch for Emerald with a Duratec.
"a sensible choice for the ECU (without breaking the bank)"
Is very subjective. What's your budget ? Have you got a full car or have you just bought an engine ? I like the oem ecu as its very cheap and no
mapping. I haven't done a proper Durtec yet and your not that far away.
Megasquirt all the way, my friend has reached the limit with his emerald and is looking at the new vipec which seems a very good bit of kit but is
around the 900 mark, diyautotune in America can send a ready to rock top spec ecu together with its revised case. Has every feature you would ever
need, as bailey have said its a very flexible bit of kit, depending which opewrating software you choose for mapping the interface can be moved around
and adjusted so say the mapper you choose is used to omex the mapping interface can be altered to look similar, also hot keys can be used and
configures to be the same as other mapping software.
Have a work with Rick at unicorn motorsport developments as he is a tester for bowling & grippe and is always developing new features/code. He
deals typically with high end performance engine usually pushing 500+ using ecu's from 500 to 3k so he can give you the exact facts from a non
biased point of view, paying big buck doesn't always get you what you need.
hope this helps mate
http://www.diyautotune.com/
I'm running an MS3X on mine - so far I've been happy with it.
If you want to use the stock coils, keep in mind they do not have drivers so whatever ECU you get needs to be able to handle the higher current.
Cheers for the responses. Much appreciated.
My budget is as low as possible without compromising performance.
I have the engine with direct to head throttle bodies and low profile sump etc. I need to sort ecu, flywheel/bell housing and exhaust manifold.
I'll check out the megasquirt option. It sounds very interesting.
quote:
Originally posted by TrophyJem
Cheers for the responses. Much appreciated.
My budget is as low as possible without compromising performance.
I have the engine with direct to head throttle bodies and low profile sump etc. I need to sort ecu, flywheel/bell housing and exhaust manifold.
I'll check out the megasquirt option. It sounds very interesting.
Hi look at rwd motorsport for flywheel and bell housing can use standard pinto clutch and cable works fine on mine and cheapest way
quote:
Originally posted by ali f27
Hi look at rwd motorsport for flywheel and bell housing can use standard pinto clutch and cable works fine on mine and cheapest way
Also can get you number for paul gardner would think about £800 for dta and loom
The price off Bailey is shocking!!!
TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT!!!
fantastic value and also comes with warranty, ive sourced a MS2 for my MK1 fiesta which is running a high comp st170 non VVT with throttle bodies,
cost 350 but it is has had a lot of upgrades such as anti lag, launch, boost, closed loop, coil on plug, etc etc most of which will not be used lol.
But it just goes to show what you can get and I know this has been built to a high standard, I would recommend either buying from a reputable ecu
builder or buying one which has already been checked by an competent builder complete with receipt, there are some shoddy assembler out there which is
what put a lot of tuner off MS in the first instance.
Bailey I may be giving you a shout in the near future for some parts I need, (injectors, sensors etc)
I want to do the install myself. Part of the fun (for me) is learning how it all works and the challenge of doing the install.
quote:
Originally posted by Autoflock Motorsport
The price off Bailey is shocking!!!
TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT!!!
fantastic value and also comes with warranty, ive sourced a MS2 for my MK1 fiesta which is running a high comp st170 non VVT with throttle bodies, cost 350 but it is has had a lot of upgrades such as anti lag, launch, boost, closed loop, coil on plug, etc etc most of which will not be used lol. But it just goes to show what you can get and I know this has been built to a high standard, I would recommend either buying from a reputable ecu builder or buying one which has already been checked by an competent builder complete with receipt, there are some shoddy assembler out there which is what put a lot of tuner off MS in the first instance.
Bailey I may be giving you a shout in the near future for some parts I need, (injectors, sensors etc)
quote:
Originally posted by TrophyJem
I want to do the install myself. Part of the fun (for me) is learning how it all works and the challenge of doing the install.
i would allway use the stock ford system if you can, no matter of tuning will get the same quality as the OE mapping
quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
i would allway use the stock ford system if you can, no matter of tuning will get the same quality as the OE mapping
I imported my MS3 V3 from DIY Autotune and built it myself very easy to do, if you take your time.
I had the luxury of being a qualified electrical/electrocincs engineer though, but I would say the instructions are very good and you test each stage
after bilding it and if you get to the end it with no probs it will all work fine.
Have plans to visit Bailey when I can aford it, he's a top guy.
quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
i would allway use the stock ford system if you can, no matter of tuning will get the same quality as the OE mapping
quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
I imported my MS3 V3 from DIY Autotune and built it myself very easy to do, if you take your time.
I had the luxury of being a qualified electrical/electrocincs engineer though, but I would say the instructions are very good and you test each stage after bilding it and if you get to the end it with no probs it will all work fine.
Have plans to visit Bailey when I can aford it, he's a top guy.
quote:
Originally posted by TrophyJem
quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
I imported my MS3 V3 from DIY Autotune and built it myself very easy to do, if you take your time.
I had the luxury of being a qualified electrical/electrocincs engineer though, but I would say the instructions are very good and you test each stage after bilding it and if you get to the end it with no probs it will all work fine.
Have plans to visit Bailey when I can aford it, he's a top guy.
That's very interesting. I'm an electronics engineer as well, so no problem with the assembly.
I like that idea.
I'll be contacting DIY Autotune
Cheers
quote:
Originally posted by Autoflock Motorsport
quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
i would allway use the stock ford system if you can, no matter of tuning will get the same quality as the OE mapping
I would have to disagree with that matey, if you were leaving the engine in totally standard configuration even with the std exhaust them that post would be very valid as the oem maps have a lot of time spent on them especially things like cruise and cold start maps. But in these circumstances things are totally opposite in respect that the engine is now working in a different environment and also working with non oem parts. Using itb's with a standard ecu could end in tears, instead of the ecu fueling air delivered by one throttle body it has to fuel 4, this could cause the engine to run lean, drt, melt a piston etc.
also people with these sort of car (like myself) arnt too concerned with emissions or mpg but more about getting the best performance which is full accessable using a mapable ecu not to mention adding more safety features which a std ecu may not offer. The list is endless but if you were refferening to the different load sites on a oem ecu then yes they are great for a road car in std trim.
Bailey - in regards to DTA, I have know this brand of ecu to struggle to the same thing twice lol also known to crash during mapping
quote:
Originally posted by Autoflock Motorsport
quote:
Originally posted by TrophyJem
quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
I imported my MS3 V3 from DIY Autotune and built it myself very easy to do, if you take your time.
I had the luxury of being a qualified electrical/electrocincs engineer though, but I would say the instructions are very good and you test each stage after bilding it and if you get to the end it with no probs it will all work fine.
Have plans to visit Bailey when I can aford it, he's a top guy.
That's very interesting. I'm an electronics engineer as well, so no problem with the assembly.
I like that idea.
I'll be contacting DIY Autotune
Cheers
I would also consult phil as well, just incase he buys parts in bulk, he may be able to source you raw components cheaper/save on duty, just an idea mate. If you do go this route it would be awsom if you could do an ecu assembly step by step thread, I for one would be very interested and would be happy to donate a swift pint to you at an event ;-)
quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
quote:
Originally posted by Autoflock Motorsport
quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
i would allway use the stock ford system if you can, no matter of tuning will get the same quality as the OE mapping
I would have to disagree with that matey, if you were leaving the engine in totally standard configuration even with the std exhaust them that post would be very valid as the oem maps have a lot of time spent on them especially things like cruise and cold start maps. But in these circumstances things are totally opposite in respect that the engine is now working in a different environment and also working with non oem parts. Using itb's with a standard ecu could end in tears, instead of the ecu fueling air delivered by one throttle body it has to fuel 4, this could cause the engine to run lean, drt, melt a piston etc.
also people with these sort of car (like myself) arnt too concerned with emissions or mpg but more about getting the best performance which is full accessable using a mapable ecu not to mention adding more safety features which a std ecu may not offer. The list is endless but if you were refferening to the different load sites on a oem ecu then yes they are great for a road car in std trim.
Bailey - in regards to DTA, I have know this brand of ecu to struggle to the same thing twice lol also known to crash during mapping
he didnt say its wasnt a stock engine though, i did say if you could keep it then do so if not then you have no choice, im no stranger to custom engine builds and standalone management.
allways use the management that the mapper recommends and is happy using, for a spec like this any will cover what you want, some like dta have switching maps and traction control facility.
ive always run my engine on omex, fantastic aftersales and support, great features and other company products integrate faultlessly with it in terms of logging and dash functions.
Personally i'd go Omex, Emerald, DTA or MBE.
Well if your an engineer its a no brainer.
The biggest thing I got out of it was learning how electronic ignition and fuel injection systems work and a good understanding of how to program
them.
Something I didn't really know about - so now there's nothing on my car I don't know about.
from what i have read here i woud say your best option would be to get a megasquirt2 and use the most upto date "extra" firmware and build
it yourself.
what you need to do is read the extra build manual work out what you need and any extras you want before you order your kit as you add or remove bits
to suit
www.msextra.com
also get a jimstim is a good idea to test/play/understand your ms2 and will also give you a bit of build practice if you build it first
i got mine from diyautotune and james (i think that was his name) is very helpful and offers support on the forum.
most ford stuff is a 36-1 vr trigger and your better of running your coils direct (no edis) so you will need to get extra coil drivers.
also read up on what settings your coils (dwell) and injectors (hi or low imp) you need and put these in at the start then you will have no risk of
overloading anything when you have it all installed.
oem for kitcars is not that good an idea as you almost always have to change things away from std. to fit the engine into the car and you also dont
need to use all the junk that has to go with them.
I am going with a Microsquirt. I like the waterproof, small solide package. Haven't started the car yet but It should do the job
Whilst I know it's not a Duratec, I'm going MS3X for my V6 build. If you're careful with your coil choices you don't need any
extra drivers either. I'm using the big American LS V8 truck coils, and they're all logic driven so nice tiny 5V signals and no large direct
current loads into the ECU.
I too built mine, and as long as you have the build manual to hand it's easy to solder together. If importing a kit, it looks like this:
And ends up like this:
I built an MSII before to run a k-series,
Over the Christmas I built an MSIII for my new Duratec project (MSII would have been just as good, but for the extra £60 I've got some
additional upgrade options....)
Cheers
Ian
[Edited on 10/1/14 by mackei23b]
An MS2 is fine for a 4 cylinder, unless you simply must have onboard logging.
I just built one for my Duratec V6 and used a MS2 w/a special 2 channel VR conditioner, 3 injector channels, and 3 ignition channels, fan control,
launch contro, and nitrous control.
I prefer the v3.0 board as it is more versatile.
I used an MS3 on my 4 cylinder racer so I could record a race and play it back.
I build them here in the states and would not presume to give a quote without knowing a lot more about the motor and its install.
There are many different ways to build one, add on boards and additional wiring depending on the application.
The only thing Duratec tells me is that it is a 4 (2.3L), 6 (2.5L - 3.0L - 3.5L - 3.7L), or 8 (4.0L) cylinder with a VR cam & crank sensor!
MS is the only system I would consider, as the other systems I have used all seems to paint me into a corner.
AN MS can be made to do most anything, as even the code is open and can be re-written as needed. Try that with a proprietary system!
[Edited on 2/6/14 by Bent Wrench]
[Edited on 2/6/14 by Bent Wrench]
Got myself a MS2 from DIYautotune, spent a week learning about megasquirt and fuel injection and managed to very easily graft it onto my Kawasaki ZX9
along with a turbo. With a few values from the sensors that I was using and plugging in my injector size, trigger wheel specs etc. it was very easy to
get it set up and idling.
Then it went to Dale at Bailey Performance to get it mapped, very happy with the results. By far the best value option and you don't miss out on
any of the bells and whistles that come on the other ECU's mentioned.
Also the best thing is that you can upgrade the daughter board in the ECU in the future for many many more bells and whistles that come with MS3
quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
Well if your an engineer its a no brainer.
The biggest thing I got out of it was learning how electronic ignition and fuel injection systems work and a good understanding of how to program them.
Something I didn't really know about - so now there's nothing on my car I don't know about.
)