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Chinese Turbos?

ashg - 27/7/12 at 07:47 AM

Ok Out of interest. who on here has actually used a Chinese turbo on their car or another car. what was your experience?

I know a lot of people on here are against them but is it based on real experience with them or just typical internet forum speculation?

loggyboy - 27/7/12 at 08:12 AM

This chaps pleased with his:

MikeRJ - 27/7/12 at 09:07 AM

A friend had a huge Chinese turbo on his 200SX. Besides ridiculous levels of lag it lasted a few thousand miles before the compressor wheel acted like a fragmentation grenade. Can't rule out something passed through it though.

[Edited on 27/7/12 by MikeRJ]

dhutch - 27/7/12 at 09:26 AM

Never used one, butI would expect that most are very good, but depending on the engine, it could be an expensive mistake if yours wasnt, although obviously anything can fail.

Daniel

Slimy38 - 27/7/12 at 10:30 AM

They seem to have a reputation for failing really quickly and taking half the engine with them, but when you try and trace the story back they tend to get very vague.

Out of the few that can be traced, they end up very similar to that youtube video. It's 'oh, it has actually lasted. That's a surprise'...

My view is, if they cost a third of the price of a name brand, but last a third of the time, then you've broken even.

Poorscousertommy - 27/7/12 at 10:57 AM

Depends on the nature of the company.. I work for a certain manufacturer, and we see copies of our turbos all the time.. They look the part, and have the detail (even down to the brand ID of the genuine foundries), but not necessarily the Engineering behind the product.

Point in note, when containment tested (burst test), the turbine housing was proven to be made of the ferrous equivalent of toffee!

Not pretty when your turbine blades are whizzing round at 120k RPM...

Cant comment on Chinese OEM though...

liam.mccaffrey - 27/7/12 at 11:40 AM

How well would a "quality" housing stand up to a turbine blade failure? Genuinely interested.

quote:
Originally posted by Poorscousertommy
Depends on the nature of the company.. I work for a certain manufacturer, and we see copies of our turbos all the time.. They look the part, and have the detail (even down to the brand ID of the genuine foundries), but not necessarily the Engineering behind the product.

Point in note, when containment tested (burst test), the turbine housing was proven to be made of the ferrous equivalent of toffee!

Not pretty when your turbine blades are whizzing round at 120k RPM...

Cant comment on Chinese OEM though...

Poorscousertommy - 27/7/12 at 12:52 PM

They contain! It's one of the fundamental safety checks conducted during the product design / approval process. Key criteria is when a wheel failur is induced that the housing holds (compressor or turbine end). Its qchieved through controlling the wall thickness and the ductility of the material.

If one was to go, it ensures you don't have turbine blades coming thru your bonnet (or up your backside if the engine is below you - think HGV!)

Seriously fun test to watch

coyoteboy - 27/7/12 at 01:19 PM

I've seen more than one turbo-based-turbine shatter taking the compressor housings with it. Clearly non-standard use of course.

deltron63 - 27/7/12 at 05:45 PM

China = crap

coyoteboy - 27/7/12 at 06:00 PM

That's really quite unfair to be honest - we outsourced a bunch of CNC work to china and they were cheaper, higher tolerance and faster than any of the UK based manufacturers we could find, including shipping time.

deltron63 - 27/7/12 at 06:12 PM

EVERTHING i put on my MGB that was made in China is in the bin. Some critical parts like the servo, leaf springs, the list goes on.
They were all badly made or fell apart. i fitted a waterpump and the pulley bolts hit the casting !!

coyoteboy - 27/7/12 at 06:21 PM

Maybe you mean cheap then?

scootz - 27/7/12 at 06:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
That's really quite unfair to be honest - we outsourced a bunch of CNC work to china and they were cheaper, higher tolerance and faster than any of the UK based manufacturers we could find, including shipping time.

Ever asked yourself why it's cheaper / faster?

The fact of the matter is that the Chinese can undercut everyone because they pay their workers a pittance to work ridiculous hours in terrible conditions whilst causing incredible levels of pollution without any systems of control.

Now ask the question... when will the Chinese start making the (whatever it is you're using their components for) cheaper, at higher tolerances and faster than YOUR company can do it? Pretty soon thereafter your company goes to the wall!

And then there's the generic human / animal rights abuses.

I boycott Chinese products (and some others) wherever I can. To do otherwise is causing incredible damage to our own economy and to the planet in general.

skodaman - 27/7/12 at 07:47 PM

''I boycott Chinese products (and some others) wherever I can.''
Me too though it's often quite difficult to find an alternative.
Beware of the rice eaters for they shall inherit the Earth..

JoelP - 27/7/12 at 08:33 PM

I dont mind chinese products in some cases, but i am sick of seeing some of the junk they make and ship. Like crap toys and ornaments, nasty cheap junk which i object to both for the waste of resources, and the fact that the trade deficit is going to cause us some serious trouble in future.

froggy - 27/7/12 at 08:40 PM

back to the topic i wouldnt touch one with a bargepole and i dont know anyone who has got more than a few 1000 miles from one and even less once you start going above 1 bar of boost

Fred W B - 28/7/12 at 07:09 AM

Not on topic really, but the VW plant here in Uitenhage South Africa. has just been awarded a large contract to manufacture engines for export to China! Makes me feel quite proud.

Cheers

Fred W B

coyoteboy - 29/7/12 at 10:54 PM

quote:

Ever asked yourself why it's cheaper / faster? The fact of the matter is that the Chinese can undercut everyone because they pay their workers a pittance to work ridiculous hours in terrible conditions whilst causing incredible levels of pollution without any systems of control.

Yep, and of course I'm aware there are issues. But boycotting them won't help, working with them to get better conditions will. Regardless, I personally know two chinese factory owners (friends from uni) and while their wages are low, so is their cost of living. Their safety and other standards are actually very high in these two specific cases. Try not to generalise or go on crusades.

scootz - 30/7/12 at 09:03 AM

I'm delighted you know of 2 companies in China that treat their workers well. Hopefully the hundreds of thousands of others that treat theirs like sh*t will follow suit!

As for generalising... there are 1.3 billion people in the country... of course I have to generalise!

You also make mention that the cost of 'living' in China is cheap. I'd perhaps change the word 'living' to 'surviving'. They are very different!

Don't get me wrong. I have little sympathy for them. I'm a great believer that you reap what you sow and that the entire human race (in general terms!) will get what's coming to it. It's just a shame that the whole planet has to suffer as a consequence of our over-breeding and locust-like behaviour.

All together now... I'M H-A-P-P-Y!!!

Mr Whippy - 30/7/12 at 11:17 AM

I just doubt the logic of buying a cheap part (regardless of where it is made) that could if it failed wreck your engine and end up costing you much more in the future than your original saving

coyoteboy - 30/7/12 at 12:19 PM

quote:

You also make mention that the cost of 'living' in China is cheap. I'd perhaps change the word 'living' to 'surviving'. They are very different!

Cost of living (perfectly well) is very cheap - I looked at moving over there with work when offered and I could take a 66% pay cut and live just as well as I do now.

scootz - 30/7/12 at 04:33 PM

I've no doubt whatsoever that the cost of living there is cheap... for someone coming from the west!

But that's not really relevant. In this instance, the only thing that matters is the cost of living (perfectly well) for the Chinese citizen.

Let's face it. A 66% pay-cut in your UK wage would not put you anywhere near the pittance paid to the average factory worker in China (about 60p per hour).

coyoteboy - 30/7/12 at 04:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I've no doubt whatsoever that the cost of living there is cheap... for someone coming from the west!

Missing your point? It's no different to someone coming from the east. It was the same job open to the same people with "local" pay and I'd still be buying a local house with local currency, not taking some hidden fortune with me.

quote:

Let's face it. A 66% pay-cut in your UK wage would not put you anywhere near the pittance paid to the average factory worker in China (about 60p per hour).

No, but it much like here you might consider the average factory workers wage a pittance compared to my current wage, and likewise my wage here would be classed as a pittance in comparison with someone working in london doing the same job.

By quoting 60p per hour (compared to the UK where a factory worker might earn you're simply ignoring the fact that rent of a "normal" property is similarly cheaper, food (particularly not imported) is VASTLY cheaper etc etc. This isn't just my opinion, this is the opinion of dozens of chinese students I've taught over the years who happily go back and do "normal" jobs there rather than stay here. <shrugs> Sure there's likely to be SOME folk who are effectively slave labour, clearly not good, but high-tolerance high precision parts are not made by a starving workforce with no skills, they're generally made by reasonably well paid (for the area) people. If you buy cheap chinese tat toys, sure you're likely to be funding dodgy work practices but you can't tar them all with the same brush and you can't sensibly claim that just because their wages are lower than ours they're treated like slaves.

I guess where I was going with the original reply is to say it's not universally as bad as you make out and the way to help improve their standards is not to refuse to buy from them, it's to work WITH them - all that does is push down wages, prices and standards until someone does buy.

[Edited on 30/7/12 by coyoteboy]

westy turbo - 2/8/12 at 06:40 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
That's really quite unfair to be honest - we outsourced a bunch of CNC work to china and they were cheaper, higher tolerance and faster than any of the UK based manufacturers we could find, including shipping time.

BaileyPerformance - 3/8/12 at 09:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
That's really quite unfair to be honest - we outsourced a bunch of CNC work to china and they were cheaper, higher tolerance and faster than any of the UK based manufacturers we could find, including shipping time.

First few batches will be great, see how you get on in six months.

90% of there stuff is crap, but there is good and bad, we have used Chinese turbos without problems but they tend to have a short life. But are vert cheap!