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Author: Subject: Where is my coolant going?
Guinness

posted on 23/4/10 at 09:55 AM Reply With Quote
Where is my coolant going?

ARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

It's happening again

I've run the Indy for 4 years now and the design of the cooling system has stayed the same. For the first 3 years it all worked fine. Basically it's exactly the same set up as in the original bike, using mostly original components (ZZR1100).

The set up is:- out the top of the cylinder liner, ally pipe, hose, to the original thermostat, ally pipe to hose, to radiator, from the rad via an ally pipe to the water pump, ally pipe to the other side of the cylinders, throught there and back again.

The thermostat is fitted at the very top of the bonnet, and there is a pressure cap on there, which has a spring inside it, which allows any expansion to flow out a small 6mm pipe to an unpressurised expansion bottle. When it cools, it is supposed to suck the coolant back from this bottle into the system.

When I parked the car up last winter, 2008, it was all fine. The first blat of the year was down to the Yorkshire Big Breakfast and it took an age to warm up, then when it did it wouldn't cool down again.

Checked the operation of the thermostat in a cup of hot water, it opens OK.

Re-filled the system, bled it, ran it up to temp and then let it cool down again. Take the cap off and instead of the water level being at the top, it's down by about an inch. Doesn't sound to bad, until you realise that this leaves the thermostat and the temperature sender out of the coolant. Top it up, fine, it just sits there. Start it up without the cap on, the coolant expands and runs out the top. Let it cool down again and the level drops.

No obvious leaks from the rad, any of the silicone hoses, or any of the ally pipes.

So I thought I had HGF. So I put some K-Seal in. Yuk. That turned the whole cooling system into an oily sticky mess, and completely sealed the 6mm expansion hose (didn't realise this). This meant I was pressuring up the system pretty high.

Eventually one of the hoses gave way, leading to rapid cooling loss. Re-filled it and drove home. I would note that throughout this the engine pulls as strongly as it ever did, with no drop in performance. ( I did a couple of trackdays and nearly 900 miles around Scotland).

So eventually having convinced myself that it was HGF, I took the engine out, took the head off, got it skimmed, re-did all the valves, cleaned out the entire cooling system, cleaning every tube, hose, and flushing the rad as best I could.

Put it all back together, filled the system up, ran it up to temp, fine, let it cool down, same inch of water has disappeared. Try again, re-fill, bleed, try again. Still exactly the same. ARRRGGHHH!!

So this time, I diagnose it is either the head or the cylinder liner that are cracked. So I fit another engine (only to find out this one's gearbox is knackered). So I split both engines down, put my gearbox / clutch in the new block.

Put the engine back in. Fill the coolant up, bleed it, run it up to temp fine. Let it cool down, same inch of water has gone???

Try again, fill, bleed, top up, warm up, cool down, water just gone.

So even with a completely different engine, water pump and pipes I'm still losing coolant!

The only original components are the rad, which doesn't appear to have any leaks, hot or cold. And the thermostat / expansion cap.

The thermostat works OK (tested several times in pans of hot water).

If I replace the expansion cap and it solves it, I won't know whether to laugh or cry.....






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coozer

posted on 23/4/10 at 10:14 AM Reply With Quote
Does the inch loss stay the same after the first instance? Just thinking from your description it may just be the expansion pushing the excess out??





1972 V8 Jago

1980 Z750

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RazMan

posted on 23/4/10 at 10:19 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guinness
Take the cap off and instead of the water level being at the top, it's down by about an inch. Doesn't sound to bad, until you realise that this leaves the thermostat and the temperature sender out of the coolant.


It sounds like a pressure leak of some kind - is the cap allowing coolant to get to the expansion tank?





Cheers,
Raz

When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box

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mangogrooveworkshop

posted on 23/4/10 at 10:22 AM Reply With Quote
have you spoken to Andy Bates he may be able to help you.
The one thing i am doing is getting andy to supply a stronger cap as the stock one does not hold enough pressure when we stop (heatsoak expansion) so i lose coolant then.
the other problem is the fan switch trigger point..needs sorting






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pewe

posted on 23/4/10 at 02:13 PM Reply With Quote
If it's any consolation I've been trying similar methods to solve the same problem on the F27.
Have you run it without the thermostat?
I've a sneaky suspicion that thermostats can become lazy i.e. they'll operate OK as a one-off in boiling water (or whatever SWBO's jam thermometer is indicating) but give up/don't open far enough to stop the system pressurising itself.
If it's not thermostat then it must be the pressure cap - musn't it???
Cheers, Pewe

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