k bol
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| posted on 28/5/19 at 06:20 PM |
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changing bike engine in a BEC
Hello all....
I have recently purchased a Westfield SEIW with a fuel injected 2004 Blackbird engine fitted with a baffled sump and I am concerned about the
reliability of the engine after reading several posts regarding con rods flying through engine blocks.
I do about four track days a year and a few drive outs on public roads. If the engine does explode what would be my options of fitting a busa or
Fireblade engine?
What would be involved?
Thanks in advance
Keith
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AdamR20
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| posted on 28/5/19 at 06:48 PM |
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With a carefully placed replacement engine you should be able to use the same prop, and potentially the same diff ratio, but the rest will be
different. So your shopping list / fabrication list would look something like...
ECU
Manifold (fairly critical to optimise power output)
Sump
Airbox and other ancillaries
Clocks if using bike clocks currently
Engine cradle
Loom
Fuel pump (and thus maybe a new / modified tank)
Perhaps new bonnet and side panel cut outs
Mapping
Probably upgraded cooling for both oil and water
Budget 4-5k for a reliable install on a modern Blade engine. I know because I just did it!
[Edited on 28/5/19 by AdamR20]
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k bol
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| posted on 28/5/19 at 06:58 PM |
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Thanks for such a quick reply. Maybe I would be best just buying another Blackbird engine. How often do these engines seem to explode? I purchased a
blackbird BEC thinking it would be a good reliable engine as it is fitted into the bikes. Am I possibly just over thinking here? If I keep my rpm to a
slightly lower limit than the red line would this possibly keep the engine more with in safer parameters?
Yes I am new to the kit car BEC world
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T66
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| posted on 28/5/19 at 07:27 PM |
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Ive sent you a DM.
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JimSpencer
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| posted on 29/5/19 at 06:55 AM |
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Hi
Given how little these engines cost, then Yes I'd certainly have a spare in my garage.
Bike engines in cars letting go, excluding transmission issues, is, in my experience, oil system issues normally - one way or another..
If you're going to track it then I'd seriously recommend looking at an Accusump.
(I'd actually suggest that unless you're going to race it then one of these is a 'belt & braces' over a dry sump
installation.)
Plus it's transferable, if you change the engine in the future you can use this on the new one.
I'd also suggest going for a full 'electrically operated' system as there's then nothing to forget to do (other than a check
every now and again as you'll do before any trackday anyway.)
Any good BEC, kit car, race car garage will be able to fit it for you.
You'll get people saying that Dry Sumps and Accusump's aren't necessary and a baffled sump will do, and they could well,
theoretically and - for them - practically, be correct - But - having tracked a car with a baffled sump with an accusump it was surprising how often
it kicked in..
HTH
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k bol
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| posted on 29/5/19 at 07:35 AM |
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So from what I have read the blackbird engines lunch up because of low oil pressure which in turn causes number 3 con rod to exit the block.
So by fitting an accusump would this keep the oil pressure more up and help resolve this issue?
(apologies if this sounds like a daft question) I am learning here....
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JimSpencer
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| posted on 29/5/19 at 10:08 AM |
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Hi
Ok, normally the 'Low Oil pressure' is caused by Surge - which is exactly what you'd expect to struggle with when a Bike engine is
in a car.
Basics behind this are:-
A Bike sump is designed to work With the centrifugal force of a bike leaning over in a corner, put it into a car and this all goes out of the window..
The centrifugal forces we apply to the car pushes the oil to the wrong place, so they're prone to see a drop in oil Pressure when the oil is
pushed away from the oil pump pickup pipe during cornering or heavy braking.
An Accusump is basically a pressurised 'Oil reserve' that is plumbed into the engines oil galleries, it effectively detects that drop in
pressure and supplies oil to keep things lubricated, once pressure is back it refills itself and the cycle continues.
They simply bolt on, are plumbed in and a small bit of electrics, they're simple and they work, the only thing you need to remember is that the
system now contains more oil than it used to when changing it.
The Alternative is:-
A Dry Sump system, this is where the Oil isn't stored in the sump, it's contained in a separate Oil Tank, so you then have a scavenge pump
that collects the oil from a Oil Pan (that replaces the Sump) and delivers it into your Oil Tank, then (on Bike Engines) its the norm to plumb the
tank supply into the original oil pump.
So this is a very specialist bit of kit..
e.g. on my ZX10R engined Reynard, it's a bespoke Oil Pan, Tank and Scavenge Pump, using the Kawasaki Oil Pump.
The scavenge pump is driven off what was the water pump drive, which in turn is replaced by an Craig Davies electric pump.
The, non stock, ECU controls the water pump speed to keep it all at the right temperature etc.
Common on Race Cars, where it's ultimate performance, packaging & weight distribution that are key.
HTH
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k bol
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| posted on 29/5/19 at 01:14 PM |
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Wow, thanks for explaining that. I am thinking that Accsump would be the way to go for now and see how I get on. Is there any where in the UK that can
supply and fit an Accusump system to my megabird?
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CosKev3
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| posted on 29/5/19 at 05:17 PM |
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I'm sure it was Andy Bates that did a bit of a write up on why Blackbird engines weren't as reliable as other bike engines.
From what I remember the frame on the bike is used as part of the engine strength, so once its fitted in a car the engine can twist causing crank
bearings to get pinched,resulting in them throwing a rod.
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