derekbruceyoung
|
| posted on 11/10/22 at 05:38 PM |
|
|
Chain and Sprocket Wear: Hunting Tooth/Same-Tooth, Same-Link considerations
My hybrid Leaf has been great, and I have 3500km on it now, and it seems that the driveline is getting nosier -- its really hard to tell since
everything is so loud. My sprockets are looking pretty worn too, and I have put quite a bit of chain slack adjustment into it (probably +8mm at this
point) to keep the tension where I want it.
I'm thinking it's time to replace the chain and sprockets, but while investigating I came across something I can't believe I
didn't consider -- Hunting Tooth or the same-tooth same-link (s-t,s-l) calculation.
My setup is 15/56 with a 120 link chain (which I thought I was being SOO smart to use, since I didn't have to shorten it to install it). Turns
out, it's pretty horrific since the "front" sprocket interacts with the same links over and over again, and the rear does so every 7
revolutions.
From this calculator: https://www.blocklayer.com/chain-sprocket I have a 0% and 11% optimal wear rate F/R
Has anyone gone from a bad s-t,s-l setup to good or vice-versa and have actually experienced more or less wear? Looks like the easiest thing for me
would be to move to a 122 link chain when I replace the sprockets and chain (resulting in 100%/49% optimal wear rate), hopefully I have enough
adjustability to make that happen.
Here's photos of the sprockets as they sit today: https://photos.app.goo.gl/q1XaDHHzKDJuT2et7
If these were your sprockets, would you replace them or keep running them?
[Edited on 11/10/22 by derekbruceyoung]
|
|
|
|
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 11/10/22 at 06:49 PM |
|
|
I'd heard of Hunting/non-hunting chains gears but not really looked into it. Never had need to.
I know guys racing chain drive, bike engined cars have had trouble with chain wear. One of the things I've seen them blame it on is short chains
lengths allowing too little cooling. Although your chain is quite long, could your extra idler sprokets cause the same? Also in those pictures the
chain looks quite dry. Would an oiler help? It'd be messy though.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
Slimy38
|
| posted on 12/10/22 at 06:43 AM |
|
|
Coming from bikes I've never even considered that sort of tooth-chain interaction, however that chain and sprocket is extremely dirty and dry. I
would expect that has more to do with your wear. And if you've had to take up 8mm of slack then it is probably time to change it. The uneven wear
on each side of the teeth is an indicator of the same. Use the manufacturers wear measurements (usually something like 256mm for 16 links), you might
find the chain is already beyond salvaging.
|
|
|
russbost
|
| posted on 12/10/22 at 11:07 AM |
|
|
There's clearly a fair bit of wear on those teeth pictured, how frequently are you using chain grease?
I have to admit although I used a chain drive with the Furore I didn't know about the stsl calc, I can only guess that mine was pretty good as I
was easily getting 6000miles out of a chain & never had to replace a sprocket unless otherwise damaged in the time I owned any of the cars &
that's running a ZZR1400 pretty aggressively.
I did at one point make the mistake of running a 14 tooth front sprocket with a 42 rear, that was awful & had I kept it, I imagine wear rate would
have been bad too, but the row it made , presumably something to do with the exact 3:1 ratio was horrendous!
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
|
derekbruceyoung
|
| posted on 13/10/22 at 05:50 AM |
|
|
I appreciate all the input!
I'm unsure of the effect of the extra sprockets, but they don't transmit torque, just change the chain's direction, so my gut feeling
is that they don't add much heat compared to the driven sprockets.
Hah, yes, grease. Well being bike/chain drive newbie, I didn't even know I needed to lubricate it (I thought since it was an X-ring sealed
chain, that would take care of it), so it went the first 1300 miles without. I then lubed it using a Motul Chain Care kit, and haven't gotten
around to doing it again but racked up another 800 miles to where I am now -- seeing recommendations at 400-800 miles. I should probably be doing at
the lower end of that.
I will try to measure the stretch of the chain, but I expect this drive set is now trash. I'm going to try to do better on the next one. Due to
the custom sprockets and now >120 link chain it's ~$400 to replace it all and no small feat (haven't done it yet, but I have to drop the
diff to replace the main sprocket). Also PBI has stopped making custom sprockets, fortunately they sent me two rears when I ordered the first time,
so hopefully I can make this second one last. The offset front sprocket I got was their last one, so I'm having VMM Racing make me one and ship
it from the Netherlands. I talked to Jeroen there about this topic too and he wanted to blame my lack of cushdrive.
Never replaced a sprocket russbot? I hope to get there! Do you hard anodize your aluminum sprockets?
I understand the main factor in stsl is the interaction of the chain link count vs sprocket size -- the two relative to one another shouldn't
make a difference unless they're all even factors which is the worst possible case, like your 14/42 with an 84 or 126 link chain. How many links
do you run?
|
|
|
russbost
|
| posted on 13/10/22 at 07:25 AM |
|
|
"Never replaced a sprocket russbost? I hope to get there! Do you hard anodize your aluminum sprockets?"
I have them made by a guy in the UK who's been doing it for years, they are an aluminium alloy, but seem a lot harder than normal ali, I've
never actually asked what material he uses, but I think the blanks come from Talon - so far as I'm aware all he does is machine them, no
hardening unless it's already been done to the blanks
Edited to add, probably the most mileage I've done on a sprocket set is around 8,000 miles
[Edited on 13/10/22 by russbost]
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 13/10/22 at 02:47 PM |
|
|
In RGB race cars some competitors cut their diff sprokets in 2 to make it easier to change final drive ratios. Can't remember if it worked
though.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
russbost
|
| posted on 13/10/22 at 04:44 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
In RGB race cars some competitors cut their diff sprokets in 2 to make it easier to change final drive ratios. Can't remember if it worked
though.
It works fine, I do it with mine, it all started in the karting world, they've done sprockets in 2 halves for years
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
|
daviep
|
| posted on 14/10/22 at 10:54 PM |
|
|
Regarding lubrication, get a Scotoiler or similar auto lube system when used on a bike the impovement in chain
life is spectacular, a guard is essential to contain the mess.
Cheers
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
|
|
|
derekbruceyoung
|
| posted on 31/7/23 at 08:20 PM |
|
|
A follow up -- I installed a Scott oiler and mostly it made a mess. I finally broke down and designed a Cush-drive system that I hope will extend the
life of the chainline significantly. While I was at it, I swapped the aluminum 56T for a steel 55T so my ST/SL is now ideal (15T/55T 118L chain),
and the sprocket should be more hardy.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3Fe7MfpcMGKGkTjC6
Time to drive!
|
|
|
woodsy144
|
| posted on 29/8/23 at 12:02 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by derekbruceyoung
A follow up -- I installed a Scott oiler and mostly it made a mess. I finally broke down and designed a Cush-drive system that I hope will extend the
life of the chainline significantly. While I was at it, I swapped the aluminum 56T for a steel 55T so my ST/SL is now ideal (15T/55T 118L chain),
and the sprocket should be more hardy.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3Fe7MfpcMGKGkTjC6
Time to drive!
I thought about the same thing of putting in a cush drive. What are you using as the 'cushers'???
|
|
|
derekbruceyoung
|
| posted on 29/8/23 at 04:39 PM |
|
|
I used Ducati 1098 cush drive pins. I bought a whole assembly on eBay for $70.
|
|
|
motorcycle_mayhem
|
| posted on 1/9/23 at 07:46 AM |
|
|
Sprockets are worn, replace. Chain is probably/definitely worn too, replace. It's all scrap.
Rear sprockets are made from 7075-T6 alloy, Talon will make one for you.
I run plain (not split) sprockets.
Front sprockets, I use Renthal.
My chains are DID ZVMX2, 530 pitch, 72-76 links depending on sprocket sizes. I like the grease retention.
Others use the 530 'drag' chain, no X-rings. Stronger.
Use the biggest sprockets you can fit. Helps the chain.
Silkolene Titanium Gel (if you have the time for evaporation), Pro Chain in the paddock if rushed.
Chain will stretch initially, but settle down quickly, with no adjustment required (until it's worn), then scrap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ni3D9DG2QA&t=4s
|
|
|
SteveWalker
|
| posted on 1/9/23 at 11:09 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by derekbruceyoung
A follow up -- I installed a Scott oiler and mostly it made a mess. I finally broke down and designed a Cush-drive system that I hope will extend the
life of the chainline significantly. While I was at it, I swapped the aluminum 56T for a steel 55T so my ST/SL is now ideal (15T/55T 118L chain),
and the sprocket should be more hardy.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3Fe7MfpcMGKGkTjC6
Time to drive!
The large sprocket in the photo appears to be flat and the teeth symmetrical - if you don't let the wear get too far in the future, you should be
able to turn it around and have the wear occur on the other side of the teeth to get some more life out of it.
|
|
|
