Paul G
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| posted on 4/9/05 at 08:19 PM |
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Yet another R1 non-starter!
This seems to be getting a popular topic now! My mate is helping me with the electrics - we've got all the switches shorted out (kill switch,
sidestand and clutch), the fuel pump runs and starter motor turns but cant get a spark at all. Engine is in neutral and there is the correct voltage
feed to the coils. My mate has put an oscilloscope on the system and says the ecu is not sending a signal to the coil, does this mean the ecu is
knackered or could it be something else? He's tested the coil pack and is pretty certain they are fine. I've not got any clocks connected
or a fuel or temp sender yet - could any of these things be the problem? there is an output signal from the loom going to the tacho (for 3 seconds i
think) which we're guessing is due to the diagnostic system complaining about there being no fuel sender.
Has anyone got any ideas?
cheers
Paul
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smart51
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| posted on 4/9/05 at 08:54 PM |
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A resistor of 10k will fool the electrics into thinking that there is a fuel sender fitted.
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progers
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| posted on 4/9/05 at 10:01 PM |
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I think most peoples problem with wiring the R1 is down to the cyclelock wiring which acts as an anti-theft deterrent. Its a bunch of black wires into
a connector with various loops made between contacts. All it does is to connect earths onto the Relay assembly (via the ignition switch) and ECU to
allow the R1 to start up.
So as long as you have the normal clutch, sidestand switches etc shorted correctly, your problem probably lies in this area. Best way to figure it out
is to use both the Haynes manual and the Yamaha service manual in conjunction with each other and it will eventually make sense...
Cheers
Paul
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Paul G
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| posted on 4/9/05 at 10:51 PM |
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think we tried the resistor trick with the fuel sender - do you know if the engine should still run regardless of this though? Regarding the cycle
lock, there are 3 connectors, 2 of which each have 1 wire looping back into the connector, should the third connector also have this and its maybe
just been pulled out? and does anyone have any pictures or diagrams of the cyclelock part?
Also if the cycle lock connectors were causing the problem would the fuel pump and starter motor be working at all or would this cut all activity
out?
Cheers for the replies
Paul
[Edited on 4/9/05 by Paul G]
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progers
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| posted on 5/9/05 at 08:48 AM |
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As I remember (its a while ago) lack of appropriate earth to the ECu will just cause the lack of spark to the engine.
You are likely missing an earth to the relay assembly or ECU, If you have "spare" black or blue wires into these you can quickly earth
them to see if it solves the issue.
Best diagram for the cyclelock is in the yamaha service manual (its black and white).
Cheers
Paul
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Paul G
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| posted on 5/9/05 at 10:03 AM |
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I'll try and see if there are any spare earths to the ecu or relay then. Regarding the cyclelock, the diagram in the yamaha service manual
shows it connected (but as an option) , but I cant see which wires have to loop back on themselves if the cyclelock option isnt present - how can I
work this out?
cheers again
Paul
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smart51
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| posted on 5/9/05 at 10:16 AM |
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Haynes manual show a UK wiring diagram with the cycle lock and a US wiring diagram without. The functionality is the same and so you can work it out.
That said, I did this and mine has no spark either.
Proggers,
ECU earth. I'm using the bike wiring loom right onto the battery. Surely this earth is good enough?
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Paul G
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| posted on 5/9/05 at 04:05 PM |
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Had another look this lunchtime, ECU is earthed correctly and as far as I can tell the cycle lock connectors are wired right too. Took the ecu into a
bike shop, they plugged it into an r1 and it started fine so I'm really stumped now! The sidestand, kill switch and clutch switch are all
shorted - should I be putting a resistor over these things instead?
Cheers
Paul
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Paul G
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| posted on 6/9/05 at 08:48 AM |
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Got it running god that thing is loud! It was to do with the cycle lock - we traced 2 of the wires from it and they went to a black and a blue/yellow
wire in a connector at the end of the loom by the clocks. Shorted these 2 together and bob was our uncle!
Gotta get an exhaust now to quieten things down a bit.
Thanks everyone for all your help 
Paul
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smart51
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| posted on 6/9/05 at 09:41 AM |
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Well done mate. I was hoping that I could copy your success. Mine still isn't running
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Paul G
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| posted on 6/9/05 at 09:58 AM |
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Have you checked the ecu on another r1 just to make sure that it works ok? The main thing for us was double checking that bloody cyclelock, in the
haynes manual there are 2 black wires coming from the ignition control unit, it must have been an optical illusion or just due to our hangovers but we
were only seeing one of them on the diagram. Once we'd seen the other it led us to join the 2 wires that I mentioned in my last post which
solved our problems.
Hope you get it sorted soon
Paul
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Paul G
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| posted on 6/9/05 at 10:21 AM |
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For anyones future reference heres a bit more detailed info on what we did
everything was done as per the other recent threads about the r1 where people have had problems. A good earth to the engine and ecu was created
first then all the sidestand and kill switches were wired together to short them out (none of this putting a resistor in the loop or shorting to
ground stuff) I've got no clocks connected but on the oscilloscope a pulse was going to the tacho (probably and error code cos I've no
fuel sender) but it still runs regardless of this.
The pickup coil output was tested as this is critical to getting a spark and this was fine. The neutral switch was not giving a great signal
(possibly not strong enough) but it did go on and off when going in and out of neutral so that should be fine. there was a voltage going to the coils
and my mate tested them for the correct resistance (or impedance or something!) but these are another grey area and something else I would take along
with the ecu to a bike shop to get tested. We just werent getting the correct signal to the coils to fire, the starter motor was turning, fuel pump
running and a mist of fuel spraying out of the manifold. once we doublechecked all fuses and earths - we sorted those last 2 wires (just soldered
them together) - black and yellow/blue that go into the ignition main switch it all jumped into life!
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progers
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| posted on 6/9/05 at 01:48 PM |
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Well done on getting it running Paul, it can be a bugger tracing all those wires around a circuit diagram.
Smart51 - Your earth is good enough, just be aware that there are more than one earth wire into the CDI. Barring wiring issues you need to just check
all the components to see whether or not one of them is giving you problems.
Cheers
Paul
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smart51
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| posted on 6/9/05 at 05:14 PM |
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Mine runs now too! It was the wiring from the CDI through the cycle lock and on and on. I just took the wire and grounded it, forget all that switch
nonsense. Boy is it loud without an exhaust.
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Paul G
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| posted on 6/9/05 at 07:24 PM |
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Nice one matey! hope your ears are ok - I think I've burst an eardrum!
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Ferrino
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| posted on 12/9/05 at 07:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Gblack and yellow/blue that go into the ignition main switch
Am I right in thinking that this black wire provides an earth for the CDi (under the right conditions)?
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smart51
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| posted on 12/9/05 at 07:31 PM |
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the "other" black wire from the CDI floats to about 5V if left unconnected. The clutch switch will pull it up to 12V, weakly, and the
sidestand switch will pull it firmly to ground. I'm guessing that it is simply an input to the ECU that says run/don't run.
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Ferrino
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| posted on 13/9/05 at 09:26 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
the "other" black wire from the CDI floats to about 5V if left unconnected. The clutch switch will pull it up to 12V, weakly, and the
sidestand switch will pull it firmly to ground. I'm guessing that it is simply an input to the ECU that says run/don't run.
Ah OK. So would it make a good circuit for an immobiliser to enable/disable?
ie. there is no spark at all when it is left unconnected.
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smart51
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| posted on 13/9/05 at 10:52 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ferrino
So would it make a good circuit for an immobiliser to enable/disable?
Ahem! that's why it took me so long to get my engine started. There is no spark at all without this earthed. Strong smell of petrol though.
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Ferrino
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| posted on 13/9/05 at 12:19 PM |
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Missed the smilie  
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smart51
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| posted on 13/9/05 at 01:07 PM |
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Yamaha's Cycle lock is an immobiliser. The black wire that you are talking about goes straight from the ECU to the Cycle lock. It is the Cycle
lock immobiliser that gives everyone the problems. You asked if this wire was a good place to put an immobiliser. It took me a week to mobilise this
very part of my engine, armed with 2 lots of wiring diagrams and help from people here. I would have to say "yes"
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