the moa 2
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| posted on 28/11/05 at 08:18 PM |
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Hows peoples reliability ?
hows everyone getting with there BEC's
Just thought id ask around to see how there engines are holding up and what mods if any people have done to try and maintain the engines well being
Especially interested in the R1 whether anyone has Dry sumped and if not how well there going.
Also be good to know what usage the cars getting ie track / road.
Much appreciated.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 28/11/05 at 08:32 PM |
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ive done 100's of race miles, 100's of trackday miles, 1000's of road mile and yet too suffer a engine or gearbox failure
fireblade & blackbird, blade as a good BEC reputation the birds reputation is nothing like that of a R1 in a BEC........ am i just lucky ?
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Lightning
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| posted on 28/11/05 at 08:54 PM |
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Consrently thrash the pants off my Fireblade and am amazed at the reliability one and a half years on. Mega touching off wood
Steve
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 28/11/05 at 09:12 PM |
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Jim Giblett's a good one to talk to about R1 reliability, ISTR he did 5 figure mileage in a couple of years before having to change his engine,
and that engine was only ruined by a poor quality baffle plate that broke up and did some damage internally.
Personally in 4 summers Ive broken 2 blade engines, although thats not as bad as it sounds!
The first failure was my fault, I caught the sump bolt on a speed bump which put a hairline crack up the side of the sump which I didnt spot. The next
time I used it (on my very first trackday), the sump bolt didnt stay tight because of the crack and exited stage left. I blew the engine because at
the time I was only relying on the bike's oil warning light which is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.
The second engine did probably around 20 hard trackdays plus a few k on the road, then had an odd failure which Ive never seen or heard of before on
any bike engine. The drive gear on the crankshaft that drives the clutch basket broke a tooth, which took about 10 more with it ruining the crank and
so making it unviable to repair. I think probably it was a bit of a freak breakage, maybe a manufacturing fault in the gear, or maybe a small piece of
debris got in there.
Overall I think its optimistic for us to claim they are as reliable as the average car engine in a Locaterfield, but probably no less reliable (and a
lot cheaper) than a lot of highly tuned car engines that will give similar performance.
[Edited on 28/11/05 by ChrisGamlin]
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jambojeef
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| posted on 28/11/05 at 10:08 PM |
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Thats interesting about your failure Chris, I had a very similar failure with a KTM 250cc single bike engine which suffered the same chipping of teeth
on the clutch basket rather than the drive gear.
I never worked uot what casued it other than some harsh starts or some shock through the transmission - probably more likely on the KTM crosser than a
sportsbike engine you would have thought?
Geoff
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the moa 2
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| posted on 29/11/05 at 12:35 AM |
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Have any of you guys used a dry sump system ?
As spoke to someone today who said that any bike engine that has been turn 90% would need a dry sump.
He also didn't recommend the R1 as an installation as said it was an unreliable unit.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 29/11/05 at 07:15 AM |
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"a bloke" is wrong on both counts I'm afraid.
1) I don't run one but from what Ive seen the R1 seems to be the next blade with the same almost bullet proof reliability.
2) 90 is a good number, because 90% of bike engines don't need a dry sump when turned 90% and the other 10% could get away with it with clever
sump mods ect but would still be not really up too track work without a drysump or accusump system.
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 29/11/05 at 08:20 AM |
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hi mate I am also on learning curve about my BEC but Im a bit infront..
take note of all the people on here theyve been there done that...
the r1 is one of the most famous bikes ever now, it doesnt become famous by being shit!
service the engine and do the overfill of oil double up/change the clutch springs dont forget a new clutch cover gasket.
but search this forum for other little bits of info first just incase something is forgotten..
then reliability shouldnt be a problem
Ill be using mine as an everyday car as long as its not raining
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 29/11/05 at 08:21 AM |
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when I say famous by being poo I mean having an unreliable engine
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 29/11/05 at 07:45 PM |
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Totally agree with Jon, the chap who said they need dry sumping and that the R1 was unreliable honestly doesnt know what he's talking about.
I am informed that the R1 possibly isnt as bulletproof as some when its highly tuned, but thats not really relevent to us assuming you're
keeping it stock and are not wanting to tune one to 180-190bhp.
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the moa 2
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| posted on 29/11/05 at 10:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by the moa 2
Have any of you guys used a dry sump system ?
As spoke to someone today who said that any bike engine that has been turn 90% would need a dry sump.
He also didn't recommend the R1 as an installation as said it was an unreliable unit.
As you probably guessed i meant 90 degrees not 90%
Thanks guys sounds a bit more reassuring obviously it cant hurt to dry sump but when the cost outways the cost of the engine i cant justify it.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 29/11/05 at 10:31 PM |
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LOL at "90%" I didnt even notice Id said the same thing
Dry sumping is probably the belt and braces method but it does introduce complexity which in itself can fail (a friend of mine recently lost a
modified R1 engine to a dry sump pump failure), so its not necessarily 100% safe in itself.
[Edited on 29/11/05 by ChrisGamlin]
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the moa 2
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| posted on 29/11/05 at 11:34 PM |
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Chris someone today mentioned that i should make sure the engine is rubber mounted to prevent massive vibration problems after 7000 rpm . How is yours
mounted ?
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progers
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| posted on 30/11/05 at 08:52 AM |
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Rubber mounting is not needed. Some people do use polybushes an/or metalastic bushes to give some complaince (and error margin for engine mounting).
My old MK indy had its R1 directly bolted to the chassis and vibration was not an issue. You'll get more vibration from a poorly balanced prop
and/or reverse gearbox. In fact the engine worst vibration was at around 5-6k revs where the midband was a bit rough. After that is was smooth as a
babys bottom!
Tis about time you stopped listening to the man in the pub....
- Paul
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andyd
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| posted on 30/11/05 at 09:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by the moa 2
[snip] make sure the engine is rubber mounted to prevent massive vibration problems [snip]
Most bikes have their enigines hard mounted to their frames so it's not unresonable to hard mount them in a car. My 7yr old CBR600 does vibrate
these days which can be felt through the footpegs and to some degree through the handlebars but being able to rev from nothing to 13,500rpm in a
flash, I'm amazed it doesn't vibrate itself apart to be honest. Very good precision engineering by the engine makers.
Andy
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 30/11/05 at 09:18 AM |
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Mine's solidly mounted too, the blade was partially poly bush mounted but the R1 is solid, Ive not noticed an significant change in the amount
of vibration through the car (although obviously have changed from blade to R1 in the process so not a direct comparison).
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 30/11/05 at 12:06 PM |
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Agree, how many BECS as "someone" owned/built?
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the moa 2
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| posted on 30/11/05 at 11:39 PM |
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Spoke to MK who solid mount and said was no need so that probably sounds way to go.
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jimgiblett
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| posted on 1/12/05 at 09:30 AM |
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I did a load of mileage in mine both on the road and track without a drysump. As Chris says earlier a fractured baffle plate together with a
crankcase generator mount snapping brought an early end to my R1 motor. I liked the engine so much I am replacing the motor with another R1 albeit an
injection version.
The biggest problem seems to be the use of non OEM parts on BECs. If you stick as close as possible with the original design / spec future problems
are much reduced.
Now where can I get a turbo for my inj R1
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