phil_far
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| posted on 30/10/14 at 11:43 AM |
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Fitting a Hayabusa engine
Who could help me list down all the additional parts/items I require (beside the full engine package) to havea complete enegien running in my
locost?
Do I need a dry sump, programmable ECU, different air box etc..
Regards
Philip
Philip
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adithorp
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| posted on 30/10/14 at 12:16 PM |
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'Busa realy needs a dry sump or you'll have to drive it carefully.
It won't need a programable ECU as such but a piggy-back PowerCommander.
Air box will depend on your bonnet space though I'd guess a bulge/scoop at the least or a cut-out to get to original in.
Beyond that, exhaust manifold, clocks, prop adapter... plus anything else you can't use from the old motor. Guess you have speedo healer and
happy with your reverse arrangement. Prop might be OK
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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daniel mason
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| posted on 30/10/14 at 12:59 PM |
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You may also need some deep pockets and very long arms!
In all honesty it would be far cheaper to sell up and buy a car with a busa lump already!
If your determined to keep the car and fit a busa then of course it's possible, just not cheap!
Mine ran an ignition only ecu and a set of flat slides so no fuel injection. Sounded rather nice too!
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phil_far
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| posted on 30/10/14 at 05:19 PM |
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Thanks for the update
So what would be a cheaper alternative delivering the same thrills?
Today I have an 893 Fireblade and i built the car myself so selling it is somewhat difficult
Cheers
Philip
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daniel mason
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| posted on 30/10/14 at 06:07 PM |
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04-06 yamaha R1! Like Adi has
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metro6r4
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| posted on 31/10/14 at 07:47 PM |
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CBR1000RR just putting it out there
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JeffJeffers
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 10:18 AM |
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I changed my engine last winter from a 2.0l Zetec and fitted an Hayabusa.
It did cost more than I thought it would.
I bought a complete bike took what I needed then sold the rest as parts. I have still got some left but what I have sold as nearly paid for the
engine.
Off the top of my head cause I never kept a record.
Engine frame/mounts
New propshaft
Exhaust manifold and Silencer
Oil cooler
Oil pipes
Gearcable
Air filter
Propshat adaptor
I went with a billet sump and swing pick up. I have done a couple of track days and a run down Santa Pod with no problems yet.
In total I spent well over £1000 on extra parts. Most of which I got 2nd hand but it still adds up.
Happy with how it turned out. A lot quicker now.
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adithorp
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 10:41 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
04-06 yamaha R1! Like Adi has
Simply from the principle of "KISS" that'd be my choice again.
Pros...
Lighter than a BUSA
Doesn't need the dry sump (and even more weight) Sump baffle and oil breather mod' is enough.
Doesn't need an oil cooler (and again more weight) though some have one.
3000 more RPM to play with.
Smaller especially if you take into account the dry sumps oil tank.
Cheaper
Con's...
Slightly less power.
Less torque.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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kev super 6
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 01:14 PM |
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CBR 1000RR all day long, loads of torque and bomb proof
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daniel mason
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 02:45 PM |
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The cbr rr8 onwards are indeed a superb choice!
But they will cost much much more to install than an r1!
The guy selling the fury on here had an £8000 bill to install his cbr motor! Which is why on a budget I'd go r1
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metro6r4
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 03:20 PM |
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I know there a bit more expensive to do but in my opinion they are a better engine and you get a slipper clutch as standard.
I'm going from a carbed r1 to a CBR1000RR and completely changing the whole rear end of my car, new fuel system, completely new exhaust and
cooling system on aftermarket ignition, with flat shifting, launch control and possibly traction control for around the £10k mark. The price would
probably go down a bit if I could do more of the work myself and went for a lower spec install I could save at least 3k by going with the stock ecu.
So its probably not the cheapest install but when you consider that I am building my car to be as future proof as possible for when it gets boosted
and the amount of fabrication involved in my project it is no were near as bad as you would think. On a seven it is probably going to be an easier
install especially if you can reuse some parts i.e your current cooling system.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 04:13 PM |
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Are you fitting mbe management?
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metro6r4
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 07:17 PM |
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yes if I remember rightly its having a 9a9 ecu fitted with a custom loom with a few optional sensors and a strain gauge. It will do clutch less
upshifts but not downshifts as it would fight the slipper clutch. The ecu is one of the things we decided we wanted to make as future proof as
possible for when the turbo goes on. There are other options but based on the advise I have been given this is the best ecu for my requirments
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daniel mason
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 08:20 PM |
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Probably 9a8 will do.
The gsxr 1000 is available with a dry sump, mbe management works well on them and they have huge grunt and slipper clutch! I've gone for a k6
with a baffled wet sump as can't afford to carry the weight (car is under 300kgs)
Look at the 995 mbe dash! Links to the ecu and is very nece bit of kit
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metro6r4
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 10:24 PM |
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think the 9a8 was discontinued
I considered using a busa or gsxr engines but weighing up the prices for trick bits and the fact that ab performance is only ten miles away from me it
makes more sense for me to run the cbr lump. My new engine turned up Thursday last week. It's a 2010 engine. I'm going to use an etb digi
dash and I will add a stand alone boost gauge and possibly a wideband gauge when the turbo goes on. and there isWhen I went to see it I couldn't
believe how clean it is. If I didn't know better I would have said it was new.
I went out in one of Andy's arions for a few passenger laps round sneterton no comparison to my global. Even two up it knocks seven bells out
of the globals straight line speed. Aceleration is on a whole new level. The arion was running rings round the radicals there including the factory
development cars. I have been told by the previous owner that my car weighs in near 430kg with fuel and the driver. I hope that the car will come in
weighing less now as we are going to be running a tiny tank not even a third the size of the original, and we have removed the rear wing to reduce
drag. For the events we use the car for its slowing us down dramaticly. With what we have planned for the car it will be remarkably different from the
original car.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 10:42 PM |
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Without meaning to be disrespectful. Look at the lap times in RGB and bikesports. Or the radical clubmans:
The spires and radical sr3rs and pr6 are on a completely different level! And I'm talking cometely different levels.
Look as Oskar Kruger In his pr6 radical of tim grey and Jp Ivey in bikesports!
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mark chandler
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 10:45 PM |
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Save playing around with the mounts, propshaft and all the rest that goes with it and drop on a turbo, you will however need to add a lockup clutch
and 3.14 diff.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 10:53 PM |
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Last races I can see in 750 mc where both are running is silverstone
Faster quali lap of the arion was a 1.16.92 by kev Bolton.
Jon Paul Ivey did a 1.05.28 in he radical pr6
Your looking at 11 secs a lap
[Edited on 1/11/14 by daniel mason]
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mark chandler
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 11:11 PM |
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Aero makes a huge difference, the power is overcoming this so make it slippery and you will be faster.
I intend scrapping the 7 body on my little car and making something more appropriate now I have started to sprint it.
[Edited on 1/11/14 by mark chandler]
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Andy B
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 11:42 PM |
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To be fair Daniel, it was Kevs first season in the Arion and Steve Bell who was also driving an Arion was out of contention after Anglesey where the
car got written off, up until then he was in a strong position to take the championship. If you look back earlier in the season you will see the
differential is a lot less. for example at Silverstone the fastest lap was Matt Higginson in a Spire GT3 at 1:00.01 and Steve Bell in an Arion took
the class F win at 1:03.03 so more like a 3 second defecit. That was the very first time the Arion had ever raced and was still short on set up
time.
If you ignore the Busa powered Spire single seater driven by Tim Gray at the Birkett this year, the second fastest car out there was Al Boulton
running a bog stock CBR1000 rr in an RGB spec Spire .At 2:07.01 it was a second quicker than all of the Radicals running bigger motors slicks and
wings. The development of the 1000cc units is bringing a whole new level of performance coupled with less weight and less complex installs.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 2/11/14 at 12:35 PM |
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I was in no way meaning to sound like the car was not very very good which I'm sure it is. As is pretty much everything which comes out if your
shop. Which Is why myself and many others use and have used your products, and would not hesitate on doing so in the future.
I was just getting slightly defensive After running a relatively successful radical last year at the 'it runs rings around radicals'
comment! Maybe it did and does but I just wanted to balance the argument.
I did have a look at lap times from birkett and al had done a fantastic 2.07.92 with the fatest radical in 2.08.01 with another radical 4th in the
2.08's
Great times really!
[Edited on 2/11/14 by daniel mason]
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Andy B
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| posted on 2/11/14 at 01:07 PM |
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Hi Daniel - no offence taken fella - My point was aimed mainly at the potential of the 1000cc engines and how much they had come on and less about the
cars themselves really, the problem with all these comparisons is ultimately a lot depends who is behind the wheel - having worked with the likes of
Derek Jones, Tim Gray, Steve Bell and John Cutmore in the past, I know just how quick these guys are and often they can extract far more from the cars
and the engines than the average man in the street.
The best bit in this game is the universal leveler - the results, because on the day man and machine either performed or didn't, the rest is
conjecture - its all part of the fun though 
Looks to me from your profile picture that you are out with a single seater next year - good luck for the season and if I can assist at all just give
me a bell
regards
Andy
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daniel mason
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| posted on 2/11/14 at 02:59 PM |
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Thanks Andy. Yes I'm in a carbon tub force pt next year. Think the lightest hillclimbers running these have come in at around 275kgs with a k6
gsxr1000 in the back
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daniel mason
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| posted on 2/11/14 at 03:05 PM |
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Also is fully agree regarding the drivers. If you look at cutmore at around 2.11 in the birket and boulton and gray at 2.07, they were around 10
seconds ahead of any of the rest.
I was the same in the radical. Although it went well I knew there was a lot more in the car.it was just knowing how to find it,and where from
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metro6r4
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| posted on 2/11/14 at 09:57 PM |
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Daniel my earlier post was not meant to be knocking radical or their owners in any way, it was a honest opinion of what i saw at sneterton. I was
timing the laps and paying close attention to the speed deficit on the straights. I know it all boils down to the driver on the day but seeing
Stephen bell and Kevin Bolton's pace on the straights and the way the engine pulled compared to the one in the global was what sold it for me.
If the radical cars had of been quicker I would have gone with whatever engine they were running but they weren't. If I was going circuit racing
then I would seriously consider a radical without question a decent car for the money but on that day in my personal opinion the arion was in another
league. If my global gives me that same feeling of speed that I felt in the arion I will be a very happy man. For me personally the cbr engine is the
best fit for what we need. One of the major advantages for using that engine is that ab performance are right on our doorstep.
Mark the car is rear engine, rear wheel drive so I have no prop. After running the car for over two years now. I have been battling reliability the
entire time. The reliability problems should be sorted with the upgrade package. However having had the engine out more times than the car has been
raced in the last 16 months we have discovered a few area's that really need improving as the current setup is not working. At present the
engine sits in an upright cradle. This is fair enough the trouble is that to tension the chain you have to slide the engine cradle in the chassis. It
takes longer to get the chain tensioned and running true than it does to fit the engine minus the manifold. It is in my opinion the worst designed
part of the car. As the engine cradle would have to be changed anyway i think its the ideal time to "upgrade" the engine mounts and add in
a removable bulkhead .As when I do the exhaust it takes an eternity to do because of the lack of access. If the engine is left mounted how it is and i
were to turbo it then i think that the manifold would make tensioning the chain near impossible. As for diffs the car doesn't have one and with
what we use the car for it will be dead weight so to speak but if in the future we end up needing to use one then it should be a relatively easy
retrofit.
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