Avoneer
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 12:12 PM |
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Engine Choice
Yep, I know, million posts about said subject title, but I want a post all of my own.
Anyway, I will shortly be building a locost which will be a purpose built BEC for track days and traffic light sprints.
As I want to start with the engine and build everything else around it, I need to decide the best option.
For a beginner who knows nothing about motorbike engine and having never ridden a motorbike, would I be right in saying that a Fireblade is probably
the best route to go down, bearing in mind easy of installation, cost and driveability.
Cheers,
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Jasper
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 12:23 PM |
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I would go R1 - cheap power.......
If you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 12:34 PM |
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Pat,
you know you're gonna get a lot of biased answers here, so let mine be the first. 
Blade engines are still very popular and in my opinion are tried and tested over time and give very good value £/smiles. R1 engines are undoubtedly
more powerful and lighter, but not as proven as a blade, simply because they haven't been around as long. ZX9's don't seem to be as
abundant in kit cars but thats not to say they aren't up to the job.
Obviously the greater budget you have, the more powerful the engine you can choose from. But given all the limiting factors you mention, the Blade
gets my vote.
.........or the R1......... or the ZX9, if I couldn't get a Blade
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 01:15 PM |
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R1 or Busa Just because !
[Edited on 2-12-99 by a nut case]
[Edited on 2-12-04 by mangogrooveworkshop]
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OX
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 01:38 PM |
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R1 gsxr1000 or busa
if you can do a blade or r1 you could do a busa,none of them are hard to do its just the price thats hard.
becouse your doing it for track days i would go for the best you can afford.
you could be thrashing the tits off the blade or r1 just to keep up with a subaru.
i couple of guys i know have been doing a few track days together one with the mk blade and one in a 280 bhp subaru and on the smaller tracks the
blade has the edge but on the bigger tracks like oulton park the subaru has it,we will see how the busa stands up to it when the weather starts to get
a little better
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alister667
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 02:37 PM |
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I'll try a different approach! Focussing on the negatives!
ZX9s I'm not keen on as the gearbox seems to be a weakness on them. Otherwise cheap and powerful.
GSXR1000s seemingly don't seem to like being turned longditudinally, can cause oil starvation, however with dry-sumping/baffling might be
possible, Certainly a very powerful, light engine. I have a friend building a locost with one, It'll be interesting to see how he gets
My own thoughts are it's quite a pricey engine and unproven, although could be good.
Fireblade - proven, reliable, easy installation as everyone and his dog has one. Not the most powerful, but still pretty quick in a light car. The
down downside is everyone and his dog has one! The price of these consequently isn't as cheap as they were!
R1 - Starting to become much more widely used and most folks don't seem to have that many problems with them, once the clutch is modified.More
powerful than the blade, but not in the same territory as a busa, ZX12 etc. Pretty good value compared to the busa though.
Hayabusa - IMHO (sorry OX !) these are a great engine, but are they really worth twice (or even three times) the price of an R1?? Bear in mind
it'll probably require dry sumping/baffling etc. The engine everyone wants, but this is it's main drawback as well.
ZX12 - I know nothing about these to be honest. Still unproven AFAIK. Even more poke than a standard Busa though.
GSXR1100 - Phelspa is a big fan of these, older suzuki engines, oil cooled, I have heard they can develope problems when turned longditudinally, but I
don't know / remember any more details. Very cheap however and could be a good budget option.
Blackbird - These are a great engine however they do suffer from oil starvation when turned longditudinally even when dry sumped! I have a friend
who's got through 3 of 'em so far!
CBR1000 - another older engine less powerful but again cheap and pretty bulletproof. Weighs more than the modern bike engines.
My apologies if I accidentally start a flame war :-)
My only defence is that these are my honest opinions!
All the best
Ali
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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OX
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 03:28 PM |
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hehe yip i know what your saying ali but all i can say is iv only been up and down the road in mine a few times and i new it would be more powerfull
than the r1 but i wasnt expecting the sort of power it has ,it is bloody amazing
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scotlad
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 04:00 PM |
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Fireblade- power as cheap as R1.
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alister667
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 04:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by OX
hehe yip i know what your saying ali but all i can say is iv only been up and down the road in mine a few times and i new it would be more powerfull
than the r1 but i wasnt expecting the sort of power it has ,it is bloody amazing
Aye, to be fair I should have added that if I had a modest win on the lottery I would be going down the 'busa route too!!!
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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bikerush
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 04:31 PM |
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you don't really need to dry sump the busa..just look at duncan cowpers car.. what that has done...
holeshot now do a baffled wet sump ...just fitted one to mine what a lovely bit of kit is too...
anyone want any pics let me know
dave.c
ps. off to work now so i will reply to any later...
[Edited on 2/12/04 by bikerush]
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phil_far
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 04:46 PM |
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Being probably the only BEC locost builder in Malta I woudl like to also sound my opinion.
Someone her already stated it: if it can be doen with a FireBlade it can be doen with all the others and I agree 100%. the only advamtage of a
FireBlade if that due to its popularity there are a lot of stuff ready available possibly more than teh others. However Busas and R1's are
getting also popular! Parts are also available as well.
I am building a Fireblade locost, but if I had to do it agian I would go for an R1. As a package of power/weight and price I think its the winner.
Then the Zx9/12 and Busas all come close second. for a pure racer I woudl opt fro the Busa probably you will opt fro it afetr anyway!!!
Philip
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dern
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 04:53 PM |
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I went for an R1 (2003FI) simply because the r1 has a bit more power and the output shaft is nearer to the engine than the blade. I wanted to use a
blade engine as I have one already (929FI) in a blade and it's a cracker but the R1 seemed more suitable. I didn't consider a modern
kawasaki engine as I had a zx6r from new for only 5000 miles and the cam chain tensioner died and the gearbox lunched itself. I realise it's not
the same thing as a 9r but you can't beat honda and yamahas build quality ime.
Mark
[Edited on 2/12/04 by dern]
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scotlad
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 04:58 PM |
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yup thats the blade engine going into mine just now. nice to hear a good report!
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zilspeed
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 05:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scotlad
yup thats the blade engine going into mine just now. nice to hear a good report!
Have you broken the existing one then ?
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 06:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
quote:
Originally posted by scotlad
yup thats the blade engine going into mine just now. nice to hear a good report!
Have you broken the existing one then ?
No hes upgrading the blade with a newer blade! so stig there is the old blade floating around.......Having been out with that red arrow on the road
and track.......its quick.
Carbed one out and injected one in....
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Avoneer
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 07:39 PM |
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Cheers guys for all the iput etc. and time to type all that info - especially Alister667.
I guess I can narrow things down to the blade or R1 then.
Which is easiest and most straightforward to run and get working - bearing in mind that I intend to make some sort of paddle shift.
Don't worry about biased opinions either - that's what it's all about!
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Lightning
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 08:19 PM |
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I'm very pleased with my Blade...but, if I did it again I would go for an R1. The Busa is prefeable but just too pricey. The reason I would go
for an R1 is simply power. You build a blade and you want more!.
The blades have the advantage though as being generally cheaper. If I trash mine I won't bother repairing it just replace it.
Steve
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scotlad
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 10:29 PM |
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but dont forget year on year age wise from '99 to 03, blade engines have equal or more power and torque than R1 engines! (152 bhp blade, 150bhp
R1)
www.bikez.com
[Edited on 2/12/04 by scotlad]
[Edited on 2/12/04 by scotlad]
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scotlad
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 10:35 PM |
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Not that i'm biased or anything!!!!!!!
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dern
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 10:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scotlad
but dont forget year on year age wise from '99 to 03, blade engines have equal or more power and torque than R1 engines! (152 bhp blade, 150bhp
R1)
I'm afraid the figure was originally exagerated slightly by Honda. The actual figure for the first FI bike was 135bhp and I
don't think it hit 150bhp until this years bike. I only found out my bike had 135bhp after I bought it but I don't mind that much as the
engine is unbelievable (in a bike at any rate).
Mark
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scotlad
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 11:04 PM |
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Fair enough but it irritates me the amount of 'blade bashing' that goes on in favour of R1s! i was only quoting the figures i found on
bikez.com. yamaha probably exagerrated their figures too in that case!!
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Avoneer
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| posted on 2/12/04 at 11:47 PM |
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Right so blade or R1 - I'll buy whatever is able when funds appear. What am I looking for age wise and what do I need to make sure comes with
it?
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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stevebubs
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| posted on 3/12/04 at 12:51 AM |
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Cheap Bike Engines
Pat,
I'm assuming you're not intending venturing into paying £££ territory here.
For max power, I'd recommend ZX9 or R1. If you want "done it 1000 times before" then go blade.
The ZX9 is a stonking engine that was let down by a weak (for car use) gearbox in its early incarnations (weak selector forks IIRC). If you go for a
ZX9R-E or later, this has been fixed and the gearbox is much stronger.
Availability of parts for fitting these engines into cars are (in order)
blade
R1
ZX9
However, Exhausts, prop adapters etc are available off-the-shelf for all of the above from some suppliers.
If you want a seriously cheap engine with oodles of power, don't discount the old CBR1000 - these can be had cheap as chips (<£500). Only
issue is you need a seriously low (3.1 if poss) diff to get a decent top end.
If you're not in a hurry and want to see a multitude of BECs in action for touring, joing us at Le Mans next year (see Simon Neill on the BEC
list). There's normally at least one of each. Currently I think there's a CBR1000, Speed Triple, ZX9 signed up. Normally also a couple of
blades and R1s.
HTH
Stephen
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Crazy Jay
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| posted on 3/12/04 at 12:55 AM |
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Whether u go 4 blade or R1 (like me ) contact colibriman. Guys a legend! Got me a '98 R1 engine, 13k miles for £800 and its a beauty! Had it
posted from scotland to Belfast in a couple of dayz. Well impressed.
http://www.colibriman.com/
And go to "Stock" page
[Edited on 3/12/04 by Crazy Jay]
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dern
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| posted on 3/12/04 at 09:06 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazy Jay
Whether u go 4 blade or R1 (like me ) contact colibriman. Guys a legend! Got me a '98 R1 engine, 13k miles for £800 and its a beauty! Had it
posted from scotland to Belfast in a couple of dayz. Well impressed.
http://www.colibriman.com/
And go to "Stock" page
I'd completely agree with that. Top bloke.
Mark
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