GeoffB
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 05:39 PM |
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still no spark in the blade of doom saga..
sorry for the amount of posts on this but im still not getting anywhere.
as requested by re-man and show where i am heres the story so far..
1997 blade engine
part of bike loom ( as per dodgy rodgers info)
premier loom for the rest of the car.
turns over ok but no spark.
netual light comes on and goes out when gear selected wire coming straight from switch to the bright 6,is not joined anywhere else..
not using clutch diode(still in bike fusebox with rest of unsed loom)
CDI PLUG TESTS (CDI UNCONNECTED)
top row left to right
blue/yell-continuty ok-goes to coil 1
yell/red-continuty ok-goes to throt sensor
lite green-continuty ok-straight to earth
yell/green-tacho wire not connected
whit/yell-continuty ok-goes 2 pulse plug
bottom row left to right
yell/blue-continuty ok-goes to coil 2
red/yell-continuty ok-goes to throt sensor
green/white-continuty ok-goes str8 2 eart
black/white wire splits into two
1-wire 2 the coils continuty ok
2-wire 2 sierra ignition continty ok
blu/green-continuty ok-goes 2 throt senso
dark green-continuty ok-straight to earth
yellow-continuty ok goes 2 pulse generat
BATTERY CONNECT ( CDI UNCONNECT)
black white wire at cdi- ign pos 1=11.94v
"""""""""""""""""""""&q
uot;"""""" pos 2=11.65v
blue/yellow wire at cdi-ign pos 1=11.94v
"""""""""""""""""""""&q
uot;""""" pos 2=11.64v
yellow/blue wire at cdi-ign pos 1=11.94v
"""""""""""""""""""""&q
uot;""""" pos 2=11.94v
CDI AND BATTERY CONNECTED
readings at coils
blue/yell ign pos 1=11.69v
yell/blue ign pos 1=11.69v
blue/yell ign pos 2=11.69v
yell/blue ign pos 2=11.69v
blac/whit ing pos 1=11.84v
blac/whit ing pos 2=11.57v
STARTER RELAY (BATTERY UNCONNECT)
as you look down on the relay and the fuse is in the 12 o'clock postion
connect 1------- connect 2
connect 3------- connect 4
connect 1-green/red str8 to earth
connect 2-yello/red to blu/blac on ign swit
connect 3- unconnected
connect 4-red/whit to rectifier
READING FOR RELAY BATT CONNECTED
reading at ign switch pos 1
connect 1-green/red =0v
connect 2-yellow/red=0v
connect 3-unconnected
connect 4-red/white =11.90v
reading at ign switch pos 2
connect 1-green/red=0v
connect 2 yellow/red=0v
connect 3 unconnected
connect 4 red/white =11.90v
cant hink of anything else to measure but please let me know if you need/think of any other readings may help diagnose this
nightmare..
sorry for the lenght of this post ,just tried to cover everthing
over to u guys.....???
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slaggywelder
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 05:49 PM |
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this might sound dull, wouldn't even know where to start with a blade conversion.
I did however have a '97 blade and one thing it did have was a side stand cut out which stopped it turning over and also sparking, is this
connected or isolated (if it is still there.
Just a thought.
Mark
Why, I'd horse-whip you if I had a horse.
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shortie
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 05:50 PM |
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I take it the engine is well earthed? I have a thick black wire from one of the engine mount points.
Probably is but thought it worth a mention.
Rich.
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GeoffB
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 06:05 PM |
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as i see it the side stand is not in the circuit..
i've run a thick black wire from the engine mount nearest the battery and am getting a good earth back to the battery
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shortie
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 06:07 PM |
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Geoff,
Also can you just confirm the wiring at the starter relay again.
Should be one to rectifier (Red\White)
One to earth (Green\Red)
One to start\ignition start position (Yellow\Red)
One to ignition switch (position 1\on) (Red)
also
One large black to starter motor
One large black to battery
Is this how you have it??
Rich.
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shortie
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 06:09 PM |
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Sidestand should be ok as you have earthed it out the circuit
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Hellfire
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 06:10 PM |
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Geoff - if the sidestand wire is not in the circuit that's your fault. Trace it back and earth it. If there is no earth the ECU thinks the stick
is down still.
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ReMan
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 06:14 PM |
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Looks good at first glance, I'll check a diagram later.
I might have mentioned this but did you fit your own HT leads to the coils and if so are you sure they are pushed in far enough, like I
did'nt?
Col
www.plusnine.co.uk
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GeoffB
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 06:41 PM |
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shortie-wire to relay as you described except i have no red one going to ignition switch on..
red from relay to top of starter and black one from starter mount bolt to engine mount bolt..
hellfire- i have no other wiring re the sidestand aprt from the green/white wire from cdi which goes straight to earth
re-man--yeh i have made me own ht's but i tried the original leads back on and doesnt seem to matter..here's hoping ypu find something in
me reading..
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shortie
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 06:44 PM |
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what feeds the ignition live feed? mine goes from the starter relay to the ignntion switch
Rich.
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GeoffB
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 07:23 PM |
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the ignition colours from my switch are
red-permant 12v
yellow-instruments
yellow/black-12v when running
blue/black-starter
the connections are
red - brown lead (premier loom) straight to the positive terminal on the battery
yellow-connects to the black/wire(blade loom) that connects to the cdi/coils
yellow/black- switch live to the prmier loom
blue/black-connects to the yellow/red (blade loom) that goes to the starter relay
should a red wire be coming out of the starter relay..?? (i have nothing in conn 3)
if so where does it connect on my ignition switch..
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shortie
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 08:02 PM |
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Geoff,
Have you got a wiring diagram for the premier loom? If you have one or can scan it and send it to me I may be able to see something.
Alternatively I woudn't mind popping over one night but unfortunately I can't really do this week but maybe tue\wed next week.
I am by no means an expert but I have wired one (and had similar problems to you!!) and I figure that two heads are better than one!
Rich.
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colibriman
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 08:13 PM |
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if still no joy by next week i'll pop in too!
need a bike engine? - www.colibriman.com
SVA ready Mk Indyblade possibly for sale.....if the offers good...!
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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shortie
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 08:15 PM |
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Are you down here next week colin?
If we can arrange it we could maybe both go on the same night.
Rich.
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colibriman
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 08:17 PM |
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planning to be Rich...
not sure what part of the week it will be yet, off to Orkney again this week first so it will depend when I return from very,very up north
need a bike engine? - www.colibriman.com
SVA ready Mk Indyblade possibly for sale.....if the offers good...!
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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shortie
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 08:23 PM |
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I should be able to do most nights so depends what nights Geoff can do if he still hasn't sorted it.
Rich.
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GeoffB
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 08:28 PM |
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thats sounds beyond the call of duty guys..much appriceiated..
just let me know and i'll pm my address
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colibriman
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 08:32 PM |
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all part of this crazy enthusiasm for cars we all share!
It's also driving me nuts that we haven't sorted it with you yet!
need a bike engine? - www.colibriman.com
SVA ready Mk Indyblade possibly for sale.....if the offers good...!
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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shortie
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 08:45 PM |
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No problem mate, I know exactly what it's like!! most of us have been there at some point!
I can bring my coils and CDI aswell although they are 1994.
If you let us know what day you'll be down Colin then we can arrange it, if you don't manage to get down then I will pop over anyway.
Hopefully between us we can get it sorted!
Rich.
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GeoffB
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 09:40 PM |
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shortie- ive tried connecting that un-conected wire from the starter relay to the ignition switch & get this
postion 1-automaticaly bring ignition lights up, without touching the key
postion 2-automatically starts fuel pump as per postion 2 on switch. again without touching key
didnt try pos 3 (presume it would start turning it over)
also have a picture of a factory blade when i collected my kit and it seems mk have the bottom two connections the other way round to mine
ie..connection 3 red/white
connection 4 red
mine connection 3 (unconnected apart from what ive just tried)
connection 4 red/white
ive sent you the picture via email,just zoom in on the relay
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shortie
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 10:14 PM |
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Basically the red is just a live feed so essentially wherever it comes from shouldn't matter, but for what it's worth the ignition switch
on mine has the red from the starter relay going to position 1 (this provides the live unswitched feed, this should be the only wire going to pin 1 on
the switch)
When the ignition switch is turned the live feed then passes current from position 1 to position 2\3 and then the start position when turned to
it.
Sounds like yours is the same but just with a seperate wire in the premier loom providing the live feed straight from the battery, does that mean
there are two wires going to the battery because normally you would have just one going to the starter relay and then feeding the loom via the red
wire from the starter relay?
It's quite difficult trying to work it out without a diagram, if I get 5 mins tommorrow I will try to draw what you have described and it will
hopefully make it clearer.
Rest assured we will sort it in the end, it is frustrating when it won't fire, I bought 2 sets of spark plugs before I realised I'd
forgotten to connect the 12v supply to the CDI hence it wouldn't spark!
One thing is you will know how it works when it's done and will have learnt alot!
Rich.
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ReMan
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| posted on 22/8/05 at 11:13 PM |
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Well, its got us thinking anyway!
From what I can see you've got the important bits right.
Every ones going to be different with the way ignition switches are wired especially , but to get your missing spark all thats needed is the 12V
supply to the right ECU terminals and the right ones earthed its looking good.
I'll come with Colin and Rich next week too!!
In the meantime, the things I can see to try is...
1, Ignition on, with a bit of wire earth coil connnector ( blue yellow or yellow blue wire disconnected temperarily leaving black white connected
(brush the bare end against the engine case...Does this make the 2 plugs on that coil spark?
2, Check the polarity of the puse gen unit, that you've definatly not got yellow and yellow white reversed onto the ECU.
3, Disconnect the throttle pot wires, I dont think they'll stop it running.
4, Have you fitted a resistor as instructed by dodgy roger, only if you,ve got a throttle pot you must have a 97? on ECU which I think is going to
need it?
Regs
Colin
www.plusnine.co.uk
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shortie
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| posted on 23/8/05 at 04:08 PM |
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Geoff,
Have been thinking about this, really sounds like you may have a later CDI which needs the wire with the resistor to cut the anti-theft device out the
system.
Certainly sounds like it may be this, is it possible the CDI is newer than the loom?
Rich.
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