Mark Allanson
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| posted on 4/11/05 at 09:19 PM |
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600cc engines
Just got back from a long day writing off cars and bikes, I cannot believe the number of 600's that I write off, are these any good in cars?
100bhp, a little on the low side but quite adequate. Are they strong enough?
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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kb58
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| posted on 4/11/05 at 09:22 PM |
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Define "adaquate."
Short answer, no. Well, yes, and no. For about the same money you can get a larger engine.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 4/11/05 at 09:30 PM |
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IMHO the car would need to be very light (ie 300kgs) to make them viable, in a normal Locost type car 100bhp would give reasonable performance but not
startling, and the overall strength of the clutch / gearbox would be a big concern.
Little hillclimb and race single seaters like the OMS often use them though.
Chris
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 4/11/05 at 09:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kb58
Define "adaquate."
Short answer, no. Well, yes, and no. For about the same money you can get a larger engine.
my car has 'only' 115bhp, but is good fun, and a bike engine is a quarter of the weight, and frankly, you don't know what I could
get these engines for! They would not be free, but 20p per cc may not be too far off.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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dmottaway
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| posted on 4/11/05 at 09:53 PM |
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trying to remember what the original 7 had for power - wasn't it less than 100hp?
put skinny tires on it and it would be a lot of fun.
dave
Somewhere, in Texas, a village is missing its idiot.
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 4/11/05 at 09:59 PM |
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I think the very first was something like 42bhp!
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Simon
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| posted on 4/11/05 at 10:01 PM |
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Nice engine for a go kart I reckon.
Give you 50 quid for a complete one
Delivered
ATB
Simon
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pajsh
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| posted on 4/11/05 at 10:04 PM |
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A friend of mine does club level side car racing with R6 engines. Would they be of use to him?
I used to be apathetic but now I just don't care.
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shortie
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| posted on 4/11/05 at 10:04 PM |
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CBR600RR has about 115bhp and is light so I guess it could be worth a go if it is cheap or GSX-R750 about 140bhp!!!
Got to ask yourself, what's easier to fit Pinto or CBR600, I reckon the bike engine by miles!!
[Edited on 4/11/05 by shortie]
[Edited on 4/11/05 by shortie]
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smart51
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| posted on 4/11/05 at 10:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by shortie
Got to ask yourself, what's easier to fit Pinto or CBR600
Got to ask yourself, what's cheaper to fit Pinto or CBR600
I reckon about 6 or 7 seconds to 60 with a 600cc bike engine. about the same as the 2.0i pinto that comes free with your sierra. Go on, have a
proper bike engine. 
[Edited on 4-11-2005 by smart51]
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Triton
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| posted on 4/11/05 at 10:44 PM |
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Mark A.......
www.hotbuggy.com the first ones used CBR 600's....they are what you might call very quick
Mark
My Daughter has taken over production of the damn fine Triton race seats and her contact email is emmatrs@live.co.uk.
www.tritonraceseats.com
www.hairyhedgehog.com
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Andy North
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| posted on 5/11/05 at 07:01 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Triton
Mark A.......
www.hotbuggy.com the first ones used CBR 600's....they are what you might call very quick
Mark
Anyone do these buggys in kit form?
Sorry about the hijack but they look fun
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nicklondon
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| posted on 5/11/05 at 08:17 AM |
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The latest R6 is tested in motor cycle news this week 120 BHP and red lines at 18000 also fly by wire throttle.
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907
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| posted on 5/11/05 at 09:03 AM |
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Is BHP the "be all" & "end all"?
I own three vehicles, chalk & cheese, but all about the same BHP.
A3 tdi - 140bhp
Thunderace - 150bhp
Locost (lotus 907) - 160bhp (running, no b/work yet)
I'v often wondered what these would be like to drive/ride if I could swop the engines around?
Yam in an A3 body? It would be 10 more bhp.
I saw a diesel engine in a bike at a show once.
On damp grass he couldn't pull away, had to push it onto the tarmac.
Food for thought.
Paul G
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Peteff
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| posted on 5/11/05 at 05:25 PM |
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They might be alright once you've got them rolling, what's the torque figures like on these 600 engines. You'd probably be a bit
frantic on the gears if you get off the flat.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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stevebubs
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| posted on 5/11/05 at 05:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
Just got back from a long day writing off cars and bikes, I cannot believe the number of 600's that I write off, are these any good in cars?
100bhp, a little on the low side but quite adequate. Are they strong enough?
Would be frightening in an offroad go-kart with full roll cage
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smart51
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| posted on 5/11/05 at 07:53 PM |
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A 2005 Yamaha R6 boasts 68.5 Nm at 12,000 RPM and 126 BHP at 13,000. It will rev to just short of 16,000 RPM
My first car was a Citroen AX. It's 954cc engine would give you 74Nm at 3500 and 50BHP at 6000. It weighed 695kg and would do the 0-62 sprint
in 13.5 seconds.
Your 600cc BEC would only weigh 425 kg, let us say. That gives you a 41% advantage in the BEC counting the weight of the car and the driver. Hill
climbing will be better than my first tin top so you should be OK.
If the first gear ratio of your 600cc BEC is the same as my R1 engined VortX then the top speed in 1st will be 67 MPH. The little Citroen could only
manage 30. so your 600cc car has a 135% advantag from 30 to 50. 2nd would take the cirtoen to 50 and 3rd to 70. This gives the BEC a 229% advantage
from 50 to 62. Take away the need to change gear twice and save a second on your 0 - 62 time. the BEC has a crude average acceleration of 2.08 times
the AX giving a 0-62 time of 6 seconds dead. Having to wind the engine up to 12,000 before peak torque will inch that time up a bit but it would
still be a quick car, though the 1000cc yamaha engine will get you there in 3.5 to 4 seconds.
I still stand by my view that you'd be better off with a car engine. It would be just as quick and you get a reverse gear. The bike engine
would have to be kept right up the rev range to compete but if 16 thousand RPM is your thing...
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Rorty
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| posted on 6/11/05 at 12:58 AM |
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The 600cc engine from the big four are fantastic engines for buggies/cars, but the overall weight of the vehicle really needs to be 350kg or less to
see good performance.
If you've driven a BEC with a litre plus engine and you think it's a bit frantic, you'll still be amazed at the amount of work
required to pilot a 600.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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sgraber
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| posted on 6/11/05 at 06:30 PM |
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TWIN ENGINE, middy.... What a lovely sound that would make.
20 pence per cc... What do those engines weigh? About 70Kg each? So 140Kg plus required driveline components add another 40Kg. Total 180Kg (est) for
130Lb/ft torque, 240Hp and 15,000rpm redline. Add brain damage to engineer driveline...
Is the cost of 2 600cc engines significantly less than the cost of 1 1200cc engine?
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 6/11/05 at 07:34 PM |
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The cost of 2 individual engines would be lower than the cost of say a ZX12 or busa, but it would likely cost you several thousand pounds to reliably
link them together so the cost saving would be out the window and you wouldnt really have the weight advantage of the BEC so would be competing with
200-250bhp car engines.
Apart from that, if the reliability of the two twin engine cars I know of is anything to go by, it would be off the road more than on it 
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Cita
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| posted on 6/11/05 at 07:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
..... but it would likely cost you several thousand pounds to reliably link them together so the cost saving would be out the window....
(
How about using two diff's mounted facing each other?
One diff with the normal gear (halfshafts) and the other diff used to drive the prop flange of that diff through the CV's.
Dunno if it's possible (direction of rotation-driving the diff through CV's etc...) but it would be a cheap solution.
Cheers Cita.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 6/11/05 at 09:38 PM |
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Yep potentially a good idea, but to mount them in a Locost, you'd need both engines facing north/south, with one engine to one side going into
the passenger footwell, and the other in front of it and more central, so obviously the diff idea wouldnt work in that configuration. If the engines
were mid mounted transversely you might have more luck. You would be OK bolting one engine up to it, but you might struggle to get a second engine to
mount to it and drive in the correct direction. Also Im not sure how diffs would like being driven from the wrong end, and unless you could find a 1:1
diff you'd be hugely gearing up the propshaft speed and would need a very low ratio rear diff.
Chris
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Cita
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| posted on 6/11/05 at 10:02 PM |
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If the diff was placed just in front of the tunnel with the prop flange facing rear and you would have a short shaft in each CV with on it's end
a bearing/housing,you could place each engine N/S.
The sprocket on each CV shaft could be placed in such a position that both engines could face N/S driving the CV shaft's with a chain.
If we use two identical diff's mounted face to face, as to speak of, would ther be any gearing up or down?
Cheers Cita
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 6/11/05 at 10:13 PM |
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To do what you suggest, the engines would need to be mounted transversly across the car, not north south. Here's a pic of my mate's old
twin to show you what I mean
If you used two diffs like you suggest, assuming they were both the same ratio then I think the speed of the driveshafts on the output side (ie those
connecting to the wheels) would be the same as the engine output shaft speed, which is way to fast (ie like running a 1:1 diff in a normal BEC)
Chris
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 6/11/05 at 10:17 PM |
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There are some pics of the Z-Cars transfer box on Tim's Website here
Chris
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