Peteff
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| posted on 10/1/12 at 10:49 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jossey
I Used a box with a target drawn on it. eventually i got it close enough.
Try do this when you have little or no wind.....
So breathe naturally, squeeze the trigger and don't fart is the secret 
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 10/1/12 at 02:43 PM |
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Hand guns at 400m and 600m. Thems some mighty short measures! Less than 100mm:m. Someone's pulling someone elses thingy.
I've shot Remington Sports 30.30's (not too long ago in fact, in far west NQ) with big scopes and supports, at vermin hoppities and wild
pigs, and believe me, you wouldn't get within a bulls roar of hitting them at 40m with a hand gun, yet alone 600m. I know, because I've
seen some of the best try. What a joke!
Now, if you want to tell fishin stories, ..I caught this big one on 2lb line, honestly, you should've seen the size of it, this big, true, I
fought it for hours, days in fact, non stop..... 
No Bullshite, honest.
Cheers,
Nev.
[Edited on 10/1/12 by Neville Jones]
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whitstella
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| posted on 10/1/12 at 03:09 PM |
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pellets
hi
make sure your pellets are in good condition and i would try to keep away from the pointed ones look very impressive but not that good in my
opinion.
cheers
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plentywahalla
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| posted on 10/1/12 at 06:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Hand guns at 400m and 600m. Thems some mighty short measures! Less than 100mm:m. Someone's pulling someone elses thingy.
I've shot Remington Sports 30.30's (not too long ago in fact, in far west NQ) with big scopes and supports, at vermin hoppities and wild
pigs, and believe me, you wouldn't get within a bulls roar of hitting them at 40m with a hand gun, yet alone 600m. I know, because I've
seen some of the best try. What a joke!
Now, if you want to tell fishin stories, ..I caught this big one on 2lb line, honestly, you should've seen the size of it, this big, true, I
fought it for hours, days in fact, non stop.....
No Bullshite, honest.
Cheers,
Nev.
[Edited on 10/1/12 by Neville Jones]
Someone talking sense at last, this thread was starting to sound like a wild west version of the four yorkshiremen sketch!
When I last competed in the NRA championships at Bisley we were shooting at 600 yards at targets 5ft square. The bull was a disc nearly 1ft in
diameter. My rifle was a Lee Enfield No4, .303 with a 25" barrel, that is still one of the most accurate rifles in service.
A .357 magnum is a famously random weapon. It has only a 4" barrel and a kick like a mule. The load is a fraction of that of the rifle so the
muzzle velocity is much lower and the shell will be more subject to drop and windage. If anyone managed to hit anything at 600 yards it would be more
luck than judgement.
Rules are for the guidance of wise men ... and the obedience of fools. (anon)
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T66
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| posted on 10/1/12 at 08:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by plentywahalla
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Hand guns at 400m and 600m. Thems some mighty short measures! Less than 100mm:m. Someone's pulling someone elses thingy.
I've shot Remington Sports 30.30's (not too long ago in fact, in far west NQ) with big scopes and supports, at vermin hoppities and wild
pigs, and believe me, you wouldn't get within a bulls roar of hitting them at 40m with a hand gun, yet alone 600m. I know, because I've
seen some of the best try. What a joke!
Now, if you want to tell fishin stories, ..I caught this big one on 2lb line, honestly, you should've seen the size of it, this big, true, I
fought it for hours, days in fact, non stop.....
No Bullshite, honest.
Cheers,
Nev.
[Edited on 10/1/12 by Neville Jones]
Someone talking sense at last, this thread was starting to sound like a wild west version of the four yorkshiremen sketch!
When I last competed in the NRA championships at Bisley we were shooting at 600 yards at targets 5ft square. The bull was a disc nearly 1ft in
diameter. My rifle was a Lee Enfield No4, .303 with a 25" barrel, that is still one of the most accurate rifles in service.
A .357 magnum is a famously random weapon. It has only a 4" barrel and a kick like a mule. The load is a fraction of that of the rifle so the
muzzle velocity is much lower and the shell will be more subject to drop and windage. If anyone managed to hit anything at 600 yards it would be more
luck than judgement.
Obviously having an in depth knowledge of full bore rifle shooting, allows you to cast judgement over something you clearly havent ever tried.
I never mentioned wind as a consideration while shooting long range, a handgun barrel isnt long enough to stoke up the velocity like a rifle can, but
that doesnt mean it isnt possible. No point on a windy day, but rounds can be walked onto a fig11 target.
So then - When I used to compete at Bisley at the Police Nationals, with my famously random Smith & Wesson model 66 (357 or 38 special), I used to
manage to get in a top 20 finish in the practical pistol event. Thats 43 Police forces, the French,Belgians,FBI, RUC,Military.
Dont assume because you have experience with rifles, you know all about pistol shooting, I have limited long barrel experience unlike yourself.
Have a read, I agree it sounds far fetched, just keep an open mind.
http://cheaperthandirtcom.blogspot.com/2010/09/long-range-pistol-shooting.html
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 10/1/12 at 08:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by plentywahalla
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Hand guns at 400m and 600m. Thems some mighty short measures! Less than 100mm:m. Someone's pulling someone elses thingy.
I've shot Remington Sports 30.30's (not too long ago in fact, in far west NQ) with big scopes and supports, at vermin hoppities and wild
pigs, and believe me, you wouldn't get within a bulls roar of hitting them at 40m with a hand gun, yet alone 600m. I know, because I've
seen some of the best try. What a joke!
Now, if you want to tell fishin stories, ..I caught this big one on 2lb line, honestly, you should've seen the size of it, this big, true, I
fought it for hours, days in fact, non stop.....
No Bullshite, honest.
Cheers,
Nev.
[Edited on 10/1/12 by Neville Jones]
Someone talking sense at last, this thread was starting to sound like a wild west version of the four yorkshiremen sketch!
When I last competed in the NRA championships at Bisley we were shooting at 600 yards at targets 5ft square. The bull was a disc nearly 1ft in
diameter. My rifle was a Lee Enfield No4, .303 with a 25" barrel, that is still one of the most accurate rifles in service.
A .357 magnum is a famously random weapon. It has only a 4" barrel and a kick like a mule. The load is a fraction of that of the rifle so the
muzzle velocity is much lower and the shell will be more subject to drop and windage. If anyone managed to hit anything at 600 yards it would be more
luck than judgement.
Lots of people used shoot pistol out to 600 yards with an appropriate pistol (That is before the Government in their wisdom decided that we
weren't fit to enjoy ourselves with the toys of our own choosing, in case we went berserk). I have seen long range pistols made from cut down
7.62 cal rifles, scoped up and used out to 1000yds. Have a look on Google for a Thompson Contender, you wouldn't credit the calibres that comes
in.
Oh and .357 pistols don't only have 4inch barrels, I have seen them in barrel lengths from 2in up to 12in and they don't have a kick like
a mule. The .44 and .50 however do have quite a recoil, with a suitably crisp load, but that is a push more than a kick.
I have shot a variety of pistols, revolvers and autos, over the years and long guns too. My best shot ever was to shoot a cigarette filter out of the
middle of a taget at 600 yds with a 7.62 barreled L4. This is not the most accurate rifle still in service, the Accuracy International 7.62 is. I was
not aware that the .303 L4 was still in service. It wasn't when I served as an armourer. I am assuming we are talking of UK armed forces service
of course, not some third world outfit.
As far as I am concerned the world's most powerful handgun is a Garl Gustav in 84mm.
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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T66
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| posted on 10/1/12 at 09:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Confused but excited.
quote:
Originally posted by plentywahalla
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Hand guns at 400m and 600m. Thems some mighty short measures! Less than 100mm:m. Someone's pulling someone elses thingy.
I've shot Remington Sports 30.30's (not too long ago in fact, in far west NQ) with big scopes and supports, at vermin hoppities and wild
pigs, and believe me, you wouldn't get within a bulls roar of hitting them at 40m with a hand gun, yet alone 600m. I know, because I've
seen some of the best try. What a joke!
Now, if you want to tell fishin stories, ..I caught this big one on 2lb line, honestly, you should've seen the size of it, this big, true, I
fought it for hours, days in fact, non stop.....
No Bullshite, honest.
Cheers,
Nev.
[Edited on 10/1/12 by Neville Jones]
Someone talking sense at last, this thread was starting to sound like a wild west version of the four yorkshiremen sketch!
When I last competed in the NRA championships at Bisley we were shooting at 600 yards at targets 5ft square. The bull was a disc nearly 1ft in
diameter. My rifle was a Lee Enfield No4, .303 with a 25" barrel, that is still one of the most accurate rifles in service.
A .357 magnum is a famously random weapon. It has only a 4" barrel and a kick like a mule. The load is a fraction of that of the rifle so the
muzzle velocity is much lower and the shell will be more subject to drop and windage. If anyone managed to hit anything at 600 yards it would be more
luck than judgement.
Lots of people used shoot pistol out to 600 yards with an appropriate pistol (That is before the Government in their wisdom decided that we
weren't fit to enjoy ourselves with the toys of our own choosing, in case we went berserk). I have seen long range pistols made from cut down
7.62 cal rifles, scoped up and used out to 1000yds. Have a look on Google for a Thompson Contender, you wouldn't credit the calibres that comes
in.
Oh and .357 pistols don't only have 4inch barrels, I have seen them in barrel lengths from 2in up to 12in and they don't have a kick like
a mule. The .44 and .50 however do have quite a recoil, with a suitably crisp load, but that is a push more than a kick.
I have shot a variety of pistols, revolvers and autos, over the years and long guns too. My best shot ever was to shoot a cigarette filter out of the
middle of a taget at 600 yds with a 7.62 barreled L4. This is not the most accurate rifle still in service, the Accuracy International 7.62 is. I was
not aware that the .303 L4 was still in service. It wasn't when I served as an armourer. I am assuming we are talking of UK armed forces service
of course, not some third world outfit.
As far as I am concerned the world's most powerful handgun is a Garl Gustav in 84mm.
Thank you for that !
I was taught to shoot by a retired cop - who became an armourer, he did the Smith & Wesson armourers course in the USA - This guy was a firearms
Cop for years & instructor.
He shot everything well, full bore rifle, pistols & clays. At 25m drawing from the holster with a double action pull, he could consistently group
all 6 rounds into a 50mm group.
I spent a lot of time on the range with him, Ive used autos/SLPS but prefer the revolver. Used most things on my travels, 30-30 Winchester Carbine,
Lee Enfields (various) Mausers, Accuracy International, M4, H&K, Tikka rifles.
Pistols - Ruger, S&W, Glock, Colt, Beretta, CZ, Browning, Desert Eagles, best SLP for me is a good CZ75, small light and pointy & 17
rounds.
Sold out all my gear after the rumours started, following the kneejerk reaction to shootings in Scotland.
I think the only thing you can do nowadays is black powder pistol & .22
Know nowt about car building or much else , but Im handy with a pistol -
So then Steve M - about that cat, have you got it yet ??
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plentywahalla
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| posted on 10/1/12 at 09:56 PM |
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I based my comments on 30 year old experiences. I sold my Lee Enfield and also my .22 Anschutz Match 64 and S&W .38 pistol after the Hungerford
Affair when keeping a Firearms Cert got a lot more complicated. I competed with all of them, but I only mentioned the full bore as it was obviously
the only competition held at 600 yards.
Rules are for the guidance of wise men ... and the obedience of fools. (anon)
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T66
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| posted on 10/1/12 at 10:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by plentywahalla
I based my comments on 30 year old experiences. I sold my Lee Enfield and also my .22 Anschutz Match 64 and S&W .38 pistol after the Hungerford
Affair when keeping a Firearms Cert got a lot more complicated. I competed with all of them, but I only mentioned the full bore as it was obviously
the only competition held at 600 yards.
Your right, It got progressively worse being a certificate holder, now you cannot own anything really. Never owned a Lee Enfield but always wanted
the MK4 carbine, the shorty one.
I always wanted to shoot full bore rifle, big big technique & discipline required, difference being you aimed at the target and hit it, we aimed
pistols at fig11s and worked in pairs, one spotting , one shooting, you might hit it after 6 rounds, you sometimes didnt, walking the rounds onto the
target by small adjustments to the position of the weapon, with the spotter calling the strike of the round on the sand. Chances of hitting the target
without a spotter is probably quite slim, as you cannot see where the rounds are landing. Where as you would hit the target
.22 never appealed, bang wasnt loud enough, nearly started on the clays, but that seems to get addictive and very expensive.
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plentywahalla
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| posted on 10/1/12 at 10:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by T66
quote:
Originally posted by plentywahalla
I based my comments on 30 year old experiences. I sold my Lee Enfield and also my .22 Anschutz Match 64 and S&W .38 pistol after the Hungerford
Affair when keeping a Firearms Cert got a lot more complicated. I competed with all of them, but I only mentioned the full bore as it was obviously
the only competition held at 600 yards.
Your right, It got progressively worse being a certificate holder, now you cannot own anything really. Never owned a Lee Enfield but always wanted
the MK4 carbine, the shorty one.
I always wanted to shoot full bore rifle, big big technique & discipline required, difference being you aimed at the target and hit it, we aimed
pistols at fig11s and worked in pairs, one spotting , one shooting, you might hit it after 6 rounds, you sometimes didnt, walking the rounds onto the
target by small adjustments to the position of the weapon, with the spotter calling the strike of the round on the sand. Chances of hitting the target
without a spotter is probably quite slim, as you cannot see where the rounds are landing. Where as you would hit the target
.22 never appealed, bang wasnt loud enough, nearly started on the clays, but that seems to get addictive and very expensive.
The only guns I have now are an 1853 pattern Enfield Musket and a Tower armories cavalry type flintlock pistol ... Black powder antique so no cert
required!
Rules are for the guidance of wise men ... and the obedience of fools. (anon)
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 12:25 PM |
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We used to shoot exWW2 Enfields when shooting roos, until the ammo got scarce. Cut the stock down and they made a very nice rifle.
A cut down rifle with a scope is just that. Not a handgun by any stretch of imagination. From my experience, I wouldn't want to be firing
a cut down 7.62 (old .30, and still current in a few newer forms) rifle sigle handed. I treasure my arms too much. If it is supported and has a scope,
then it isn't a hand gun.
I'll tell youse a story...
My brother has a Colt45 for crocs. This needs explaining further...
Now, he and his mates like to go fishing. Not any ordinary fish, but barramundi. To get these they go up to The Cape(that's the bit across The
Gulf from where Crocodile Dundee hangs out). They go that far to get away from the crowds, and up there a crowd is three or more. To get there they
have Toyota Landcruisers, old ones with Chev V8 conversions. Great rumbling beasts with a rack on top for the tinny.(That's an aluminium dinghy
to you) When they get there, they camp. The rivers and creeks are full of crocs, since you aren't supposed to shoot them unless threatened by
one, and they are more prolific now than ever. Now, a croc is threatening at the best of times, so he's had to shoot a few.....er, officer, it
was too close.
When they go for water from the creek, it's always in twos. One with the bucket, one with the gun. If you dare go alone, you take the Colt.
The Colt is a heavy piece of gear, and by the time you lift it, aim it, and shoot, well, the croc's got you. Even at close range, the chance of
hitting one is slim.
What you do is THROW the Colt at the croc, and hope you get it on the nose, and that makes it stop a second or two and makes it's eyes
water, so you get a start on it and leg it at speed and hope the croc can't keep up. Well, that's the story I'm told.
I've picked up this Colt, and it's a lot heavier than Dirty Harry and John Wayne make them out to be. So please, leave off the fantasy
stories of handguns and distances, it just doesn't happen. Well, maybe with a cut down rifle clamped and supported, but certainly not by hand or
with any human support, regardless of barrel length.
As I said, I know what it is like to shoot a 3030 and a 308 with 26" barrels, and a Colt 45, and none of the TV inspired stories above come
close to the realities of actually doing what is being said as has been done. Not with a genuine handgun anyway.
If you want to have a go at shooting bush pigs and roos, it can be arranged. My brother goes far north a couple of times a year.
All of the above is guaranteed true. No bullshite!
There's a very long range shooting range near Oxford, up to a mile. Go and have a look at what it actually, really, in fact truly, takes to
shoot at 1000m and more accurately. You won't buy one of those rifles at a yank sport shop, and you'd get a very nice new BMW for what
the rifles cost.
Handguns, or anything vaguely remotely resembling a handgun they certainly aint!
Cheers,
Nev.
[Edited on 11/1/12 by Neville Jones]
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T66
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 06:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
We used to shoot exWW2 Enfields when shooting roos, until the ammo got scarce. Cut the stock down and they made a very nice rifle.
A cut down rifle with a scope is just that. Not a handgun by any stretch of imagination. From my experience, I wouldn't want to be firing
a cut down 7.62 (old .30, and still current in a few newer forms) rifle sigle handed. I treasure my arms too much. If it is supported and has a scope,
then it isn't a hand gun.
I'll tell youse a story...
My brother has a Colt45 for crocs. This needs explaining further...
Now, he and his mates like to go fishing. Not any ordinary fish, but barramundi. To get these they go up to The Cape(that's the bit across The
Gulf from where Crocodile Dundee hangs out). They go that far to get away from the crowds, and up there a crowd is three or more. To get there they
have Toyota Landcruisers, old ones with Chev V8 conversions. Great rumbling beasts with a rack on top for the tinny.(That's an aluminium dinghy
to you) When they get there, they camp. The rivers and creeks are full of crocs, since you aren't supposed to shoot them unless threatened by
one, and they are more prolific now than ever. Now, a croc is threatening at the best of times, so he's had to shoot a few.....er, officer, it
was too close.
When they go for water from the creek, it's always in twos. One with the bucket, one with the gun. If you dare go alone, you take the Colt.
The Colt is a heavy piece of gear, and by the time you lift it, aim it, and shoot, well, the croc's got you. Even at close range, the chance of
hitting one is slim.
What you do is THROW the Colt at the croc, and hope you get it on the nose, and that makes it stop a second or two and makes it's eyes
water, so you get a start on it and leg it at speed and hope the croc can't keep up. Well, that's the story I'm told.
I've picked up this Colt, and it's a lot heavier than Dirty Harry and John Wayne make them out to be. So please, leave off the fantasy
stories of handguns and distances, it just doesn't happen. Well, maybe with a cut down rifle clamped and supported, but certainly not by hand or
with any human support, regardless of barrel length.
As I said, I know what it is like to shoot a 3030 and a 308 with 26" barrels, and a Colt 45, and none of the TV inspired stories above come
close to the realities of actually doing what is being said as has been done. Not with a genuine handgun anyway.
If you want to have a go at shooting bush pigs and roos, it can be arranged. My brother goes far north a couple of times a year.
All of the above is guaranteed true. No bullshite!
There's a very long range shooting range near Oxford, up to a mile. Go and have a look at what it actually, really, in fact truly, takes to
shoot at 1000m and more accurately. You won't buy one of those rifles at a yank sport shop, and you'd get a very nice new BMW for what
the rifles cost.
Handguns, or anything vaguely remotely resembling a handgun they certainly aint!
Cheers,
Nev.
[Edited on 11/1/12 by Neville Jones]
Well it must be bullshit, as I have never done it ! And because your brother shoots crocs for leisure, then that must make you an expert on firearms
too....
Take the time to read my posts on this thread, including links to those who have done it - What do I gain from lying about any of this ?
If you can think of a reason please tell me ?
So cut all the crocodile fantasy, your brother is winding you up...It never happened.
[Edited on 11/1/12 by T66]
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plentywahalla
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 07:30 PM |
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Can I add one more observation before the rest of you tell us to shut up about guns and get back to sprockets and gudgeon pins ...
Shooting snap at 25 yards with my Anschutz I could regularly get 5 rounds through one hole, slighly bigger than .22 and a bit pear shaped but one hole
in the target.
Shooting at 25 yards with my .38 S&W in the legal manner, standing with a single hand grip, I could usually manage to get 5 rounds to hit the snap
target which is about 3" in diameter.
Thats the difference between a rifle and a hand gun in terms of accuracy, and thats in an indoor range with no wind. Multiply that up to 600 yards.
I rest my case.
Rules are for the guidance of wise men ... and the obedience of fools. (anon)
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steve m
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 07:49 PM |
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To bring this fairy tale to an end, the cat is fine, i could not shoot a cat, a dog yes, orrible little yappy ones should get an extra bullet
I have not done a thing with my chinese piece of shite airrifle, as i feel rather embarresed to say, that even with the thing zero'd in to hit
a pin head at 100 km (yes kilomotere's)
For me the chance of hitting a barn door at 25 metres seems doubtfull
So the rats and squirel's i can hear chearing that the mad fucker with a gun, has deceiced to leave it covered in dust, and the tins of lead
replacemnt are left on the shelf
thats an idea, why dont i pour some of my old lead pellets in the tank on my 7 ???
I will start a new thread on 2.2 pellets in the tank, to supplement my inabilty to shoot anything, but there lead content will be very usefull to my
old xflow engine!
hahahhahhahahahahahahahaha
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 08:04 PM |
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Cats!!! Who mentioned cats? Only good for catching in a crab pot and dropping in the creek. Crab bait, that's all they were put on earth for!
Cheers,
Nev.
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