clbarclay
|
| posted on 26/5/05 at 03:57 PM |
|
|
Freg
The boys in the care if front/behind are just as bad as the mates in the car, if not worse because they start to race each other.
Raiseing the driving age would have little effect other than instead of having inexperianced 17 year olds, you have inexperianced 25/30 year olds (or
whatever age you raise it to).
David, if you've calmed down from your rant regards coffin dodgers, would you sooner they drove at low speeds (easy to ovber take) within thier
ability. or would you sooner they drove like deaf bats out of hell and consiquencly you end up being rear ended by them.
[Edited on 26/5/05 by clbarclay]
|
|
|
|
|
MkIndy7
|
| posted on 26/5/05 at 05:48 PM |
|
|
I think Insurers have some massive problems with younger Drivers and I'm sure they'd love this power cap so they could charge even
more.
Surely if you can you can prove yourself and achieve your no claims bonus or even take a more sensible real world driving test why should you pay
more? or have the cap?
If I have achieved my X years no claims surely that makes me as safe a driver as a 40 yro with X years no claims.
Sod the statistics its the person your insureing, or limiting the age/power.
I have a 1.1 Fiesta and I my insurers were debating if I could install a high-level brake light for christ sake!
And of cause they said a big no no to alloys and hence no nice 195 grippy tyres! (Said because it made it more appealing to pinch and my age).
And I didn't even tell them about the grooved Sierra Disks but this combo has saved me on so many occasions!
Where even I admit I would have struggled with the standard car (which piddely tyres locked up like mad) and maybe my inexperience I probably would
have come a cropper.
Just because of big wheels and upgraded brakes would I really be racing in a 1.1!
I have mearly Increased the safety features of the car!
And last thought/Rant, Why do we have the driving test as it stands at all, If the safest drivers are supposedly Advanced/persuit (Police 154mph )
drivers, why don't we all recieve this training before being let on the road!
|
|
|
JoelP
|
| posted on 26/5/05 at 06:10 PM |
|
|
the bottom line is that most new drivers drive like prats, and nearly all are vastly inexperienced - very few have even driven on a motorway!
in my opinion, theres nothing to be done about it. The only way they will slow down is when someone they know dies, or when they have a brown pant
moment themselves.
|
|
|
pajsh
|
| posted on 26/5/05 at 07:28 PM |
|
|
To brand all new drivers as pratts is crap.
My 17 year old is responsible and a good driver because I have trained him to be a good and sensible driver. My basic creed is all other road users
are idiots and expect the unexpected. If you make sure you are in the right you'll never be in the wrong.
Of course they are inexperienced because they havn't had a chance to get any and they aren't allowed on the motorways.
My lad get's ripped off for £70 a month TPFT on a 16 year old scirroco. I think there should be bigger excesses to discourage bad driving or
maybe a ban and retest for dangerous driving in the first 3 years.
You won't stop bad driving any more than bad behaviour in schools and on teh streets until parent show some responsibility for what their
children do.
|
|
|
David Jenkins
|
| posted on 26/5/05 at 07:29 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by clbarclay
David, if you've calmed down from your rant regards coffin dodgers, would you sooner they drove at low speeds (easy to ovber take) within thier
ability. or would you sooner they drove like deaf bats out of hell and consiquencly you end up being rear ended by them.
Trouble is, they pootle along in the narrow twisty local roads, so there's no chance to overtake...
DJ
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 26/5/05 at 08:14 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MkIndy7
I think Insurers have some massive problems with younger Drivers and I'm sure they'd love this power cap so they could charge even
more.
Surely if you can you can prove yourself and achieve your no claims bonus or even take a more sensible real world driving test why should you pay
more? or have the cap?
If I have achieved my X years no claims surely that makes me as safe a driver as a 40 yro with X years no claims.
Sod the statistics its the person your insureing, or limiting the age/power.
I have a 1.1 Fiesta and I my insurers were debating if I could install a high-level brake light for christ sake!
And of cause they said a big no no to alloys and hence no nice 195 grippy tyres! (Said because it made it more appealing to pinch and my age).
And I didn't even tell them about the grooved Sierra Disks but this combo has saved me on so many occasions!
Where even I admit I would have struggled with the standard car (which piddely tyres locked up like mad) and maybe my inexperience I probably would
have come a cropper.
Just because of big wheels and upgraded brakes would I really be racing in a 1.1!
I have mearly Increased the safety features of the car!
And last thought/Rant, Why do we have the driving test as it stands at all, If the safest drivers are supposedly Advanced/persuit (Police 154mph )
drivers, why don't we all recieve this training before being let on the road!
The above under lines the points made earlier about modern small fwd cars lulling inexperiernced drivers in to a false sense of security, clearly you
drive continually braking too often too hard and too late. If you try driving a Seven type car that way you will end up off the road within a couple
of corners.
I drove an MK1 1100 Fiesta for an awful lot of very hard miles even though it was the L model without servo I never found any problems with the
brakes while the grip was ok even on 145x12 tyres. The performance was excellent for an 1100 pushrod engine while handling wasn't exactly
precise the only realy vise was a lack of wet weather traction.
[Edited on 26/5/05 by britishtrident]
[Edited on 26/5/05 by britishtrident]
|
|
|
flak monkey
|
| posted on 26/5/05 at 08:41 PM |
|
|
I'm bored so here goes...
My dad taught me to drive, and I have on many occasions been told that I drive like him. I have been driving for 3 years (on and off), and have driven
a lot of different cars. I have never come close to hitting anything or going off the road. I was taught to treat everyone else on the road like they
are stupid, and always try to anticipate what could happen.
I have driven over the speed limit on occasion (hasnt everyone?), but only when it is safe and if I know the road. I dont speed as a rule because my
liscence is worth too much to me, as is cheap insurance.
I took the pass plus test (supposed to be 12hours extra tuition) which I passed with 5 hours training. I was simply told that I didnt need to do
anymore as the instructor was confident in my abilities.
All that said (and I love to point this out to my mates) I am the only one from my group of college friends who hasnt had an accident. One had a head
on collision (with the mayor of all people) down a single track road, and was driving too fast, he lost his liscence and had to retake his test.
Another stuffed his rover 620 into a hedge, driving too fast in the wet. Another put his car in a hedge though it wasnt his fault. He was taking
evasive action against two tw&ts on mopeds who were racing each other on the wrong side of the road on a blind bend.
There is nothing wrong with driving powerful cars, as long as you know your own limits and skills. Evidently some of the 'experienced'
drivers on here dont with the number of locosts that were crashed this last winter!
I would encourage people to take some form of extra driver training, such as the IAM course, which I plan on taking sooner or later.
If you worry about what 'normal' teenagers are driving you should see what some of the Jap students here drive...! I also have some mates
who ride big bikes, TT600s, CBR600s and Ducati's. All of whom are very sensible and havent had any scrapes *touch wood*.
Besides you will find most insurance companies wont touch big powerful cars (or even small ones for that matter) for people under 21. Try getting
insurance on a locost when you are 20, you wont get far. Those that will insure powerful cars will charge a high premium for the privaledge.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
|
|
|
MkIndy7
|
| posted on 26/5/05 at 08:55 PM |
|
|
In responce to Britishtrident
Sorry if I gave that Impression and most people probably would see it that way about the braking too hard too late.
I am not guilty of this I was trying to make the point that should I find myself needing to brake late to avoid an accident I have the equipment to do
it
and like I said I believe this has saved me many times where maybe my inexperience might have caused me to be in a crash.
So why do insurance companies object to this?
I have also taken my Pass Plus test and even chose a 5 door version of the car to get cheeper Insurance, yes even that makes a difference!
P.S, I do drive a Seven and not much differently to my normal car, with upmost respect! and peole have actually commented to my dad (not to me
personally) how well I have driven them on a test drive.
[Edited on 26/5/05 by MkIndy7]
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 26/5/05 at 09:13 PM |
|
|
There will always be exceptions to the rules and there are undoubtedly many young drivers who are actually very good behind the wheel, but I bet every
single one of those good drivers will be even better in 5 years time with experience, as will current average and bad young drivers who will also all
improve with experience even if they never actually become a good driver.
You can't make up rules / laws that suit everybody all of the time, its always a compromise but there's no escaping the fact that young /
inexperienced drivers as a rule are far more likely to have an accident than those with more experience, therefore that in itself gives reason enough
for legislation to reduce the danger IMO.
|
|
|
David Jenkins
|
| posted on 26/5/05 at 09:20 PM |
|
|
I agree that young drivers seem to be the ones who have accidents, but it's as much to do with inexperience as immaturity. I know adults
who've had major accidents within 6 months of passing the test!
And if anyone thinks I'm spouting a 'holier than thou' attitude, I've had a few accidents in my time - all but one of them
when I was between 17 and 20, so I'm as guilty! Only one since then, and that was someone who hit me from behind 'cos he wasn't
looking (and it's been a loong time since I was 20)
Let's be careful out there...
David
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 27/5/05 at 08:14 AM |
|
|
Yep I was really aiming that at inexperienced drivers as much as young drivers (hence the suggestion above of P plates for 2 years after test etc),
but I do think combining inexperience with young people who are prone to peer pressure and want to impress their mates etc does mean that young
inexperienced drivers are the most likely candidates to have an accident.
|
|
|
NS Dev
|
| posted on 27/5/05 at 12:25 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
the bottom line is that most new drivers drive like prats, and nearly all are vastly inexperienced - very few have even driven on a motorway!
in my opinion, theres nothing to be done about it. The only way they will slow down is when someone they know dies, or when they have a brown pant
moment themselves.
As far as I'm concerned, you hit the nail on the head there Joel!
|
|
|
andyharding
|
| posted on 27/5/05 at 03:16 PM |
|
|
I crashed my first 50bhp 1.0L car.
Never crashed my next car 105bhp 106 XSi or current car 130bhp "tail happy" MGF (which I had when I was 19).
Are you a Mac user or a retard?
|
|
|
Hellfire
|
| posted on 27/5/05 at 04:11 PM |
|
|
I've had 3 accidents in two years.. first and foremost. I have 23 years of driving experience with a car. I have had my bike license for 15
years and my advanced driving license for 2 years.
Within the last 2 years I have visibly noticed the attitudes of drivers deteriorate to one of almost total disregard for other road users in cars,
dont start me on bikes! One my way home today I covered 150 miles. 3 accidents all 4x4's two with caravans. Both 4x4's had "GONE
OVER" the central reservation posisbly due to the lovely shape of the bullbars on the front aiding it. Both had apparently jack-knifed - meaning
lack of braking distance!
IMHO - drivers 60+ should be made to re-sit a driving test and pass before they are allowed back on the road. 4x4's should be banned on the
motorways - they are a liability to other road users. More importantly - bad driving practise - such as tailgating and poor lane discipline should be
considered a worse offence than speeding! How much money does the result of sitting in traffic for hours cost? This and the potential loss of
life...
Oh hang on - I just remembered why... speeders are easier to catch! 
BTW - before anyone jumps on my back for my poor accident record - 1 was my fault. A tailgater distracting me!!! That and doing 50K/annum
that's 1 accident every 3 years by the national average!
[Edited on 27-5-05 by Hellfire]
|
|
|
andyharding
|
| posted on 27/5/05 at 04:14 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
I've had 3 accidents in two years.. first and foremost. I have 23 years of driving experience with a car. I have had my bike license for 15
years and my advanced driving license for 2 years.
Within the last 2 years I have visibly noticed the attitudes of drivers deteriorate to one of almost total disregard for other road users in cars,
dont start me on bikes! One my way home today I covered 150 miles. 3 accidents all 4x4's two with caravans. Both 4x4's had "GONE
OVER" the central reservation posisbly due to the lovely shape of the bullbars on the front aiding it. Both had apparently jack-knifed - meaning
lack of braking distance!
IMHO - drivers 60+ should be made to re-sit a driving test and pass before they are allowed back on the road. 4x4's should be banned on the
motorways - they are a liability to other road users. More importantly - bad driving practise - such as tailgating and poor lane discipline should be
considered a worse offence than speeding! How much money does the result of sitting in traffic for hours cost? This and the potential loss of
life...
Oh hang on - I just remembered why... speeders are easier to catch!
I agree with you 100% and would go as far as to support driving re-tests every 5 years!
Are you a Mac user or a retard?
|
|
|
JoelP
|
| posted on 27/5/05 at 06:11 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by andyharding
I agree with you 100% and would go as far as to support driving re-tests every 5 years!
and i agree with that! plus making the second test harder than the first, to represent the fact that any human with a hint of intelligence will have
learned a few tricks.
dont worry about poor driving records anyone, i had 6 minor bumps in my first two years!!!  (firstly, a sierra into a tree backwards (donutting in
a field), a hyundai (first real f$%k up, my fault, writeoff into a parked car), a mazda (moped rider forgot to cancel his indicator, so i
unfortunately mullered him ), a hire car (micra, into the back of a pickup, whilst distracted by someone elses bad driving), vectra (arse ended by a
tailgater), and a 406, which i bumped into a nice lady at a roundabout, after she missed a gap that was genuinely big enough for us both...
however, since then, ive sucessfully not damaged 2 300zxs, 3 subarus(all turbos, 2 legs and one imprezza), 3 406 v6s and many many crap cars.
i put my mishaps down to following a steep learning curve, but i regard myself as a safe driver nowadays cos ive learned from real mistakes and years
of bad driving! and i now have 3 years NCB twice over! thats the best bit...
|
|
|
Spyderman
|
| posted on 27/5/05 at 06:52 PM |
|
|
I think one way of trying to ensure consistent safe driving is to resit your driving test regularly as has been suggested.
However for novice drivers the tests should be closer together. Maybe 1st resit after six month period, then twelve month gap and so on until a five
year period is acheived.
Any accidents puts you back one or two stages.
This would hopefully encourage novices to think more about the standard of their driving rather than forget it as soon as test is passed.
This together with limiting power and speed for novices, should help.
Personally I think that everyone should go through a probationary period on mopeds or scooters before being allowed to drive a car. Make them realise
how vulnerable they are before they are given the weapon.
Just through curiosity how many of you have ever bought an updated Highway Code since passing your test? I would imagine the average to be higher here
than in general.
A poor handling car can be far more educational than a high powered or safe one. I had the fortune to learn in a MK1 Capri and learnt all about
oversteer and understeer in a short period. Heavy, underpowered, lousy traction and great fun. Those were the days!
Spyderman
|
|
|
flak monkey
|
| posted on 27/5/05 at 06:56 PM |
|
|
I bet that if everyone on this site resat their driving test then 99% would fail. How many of you cross your hands when steering? I bet most of you
do... (I nearly failed my test for that). Most people would fail on a combination of minors, as we all get into bad habits. Its just another hassle,
that at the end of the day isnt worth it. Just imagine how f&*ked you would be if you failed and had to wait a month for a resit!
I would encourage people to take some form of advanced driving test to hone their observation skills (this is pretty much all it teaches).
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
|
|
|
andyharding
|
| posted on 27/5/05 at 06:58 PM |
|
|
quote:
Just imagine how f&*ked you would be if you failed and had to wait a month for a resit!
That's why you'd do the retest before your old one ran out. Like your MOT. Then if you fail you have a safety net.
Are you a Mac user or a retard?
|
|
|
flak monkey
|
| posted on 27/5/05 at 07:17 PM |
|
|
Meh. I still dont agree. You can behave perfectly on a test, and still be a menace when you are out on your own. Simple as that. Theres no way of
controlling the quality of driving, without constant monitoring.
There are good and bad drivers. Some bad drivers will slowly become better drivers, some wont. Theres nothing you can do to stop the bad drivers on
the road.
My grandad got his liscence in the army during WW2. His test consisted of 'get in that truck and drive it down that hill'. Passed, one
licence. He later went on to hold a PSV and HGV licence, and only had about 3 minor accidents in his driving career. Proof that driving tests dont
determine the quality of the driver...
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
|
|
|
Hellfire
|
| posted on 27/5/05 at 08:48 PM |
|
|
Let's put things in perspective... the UK has the safest roads in Europe. (Stats from 5Live!) I think it's an ideal opportunity for this
government to do something useful and impose a regular driving assesment - not necessarily a 'pass' or 'fail' unless
you're over 60. It needn't be a full driver test just an assesment... with recomendations.
My company imposes better driving skills to reduce insurance premiums. We have to go on a refresher every two years to keep the discounts. I think
that is a cracking incentive to improve your driving skills. I'm lucky in as much that the company pays for this. However, that doesn't
mean to say I'm a good driver, just a better one... it perhaps makes me even more cautious than I should be, thereby making me a more
consiencious driver. I think everyone would benefit by doing one of these courses.
|
|
|
JoelP
|
| posted on 27/5/05 at 09:00 PM |
|
|
seeing the driving in gran canaria really did make me feel better about englands roads...
[Edited on 27/5/05 by JoelP]
|
|
|
phelpsa
|
| posted on 27/5/05 at 09:49 PM |
|
|
I vote stronger punishments when you get it wrong, like driving bans etc.
I agree with Phil, why should we suffer for others wrongs?
Adam
|
|
|
Peteff
|
| posted on 27/5/05 at 10:34 PM |
|
|
My last nearly was a couple of months ago. I pulled out in front of someone on a roundabout as they were indicating to turn off at the previous
exit. It was the only car out of the ones on the roundabout that was using indicators so I assumed they meant what they were signalling.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
|
|
|
JoelP
|
| posted on 27/5/05 at 11:15 PM |
|
|
thats what happened with my moped incident... he apolloguised profusely at the scene, and then sued me
|
|
|
