TimC
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 12:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
2.5module gears are meant for small industrial useage...
You might find something similar to 2.5 module in the gearcase of a wiper motor, by way of example.
Cheers,
Nev.
Nev, I'm absolutely not questioning the overall 'thrust' of your post but 2.5MOD gears are quite common on high-torque starter
motors and therefore fly-wheels - which is rather different to a wiper motor.
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yahshuatwo
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 posted on 11/1/12 at 02:35 PM |
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quote:
I'll try and be nice, so don't get upset unnecessarily.
Fella, you need to get some books on gear design, and study them, then try and understand what you are doing. 2.5module gears are meant for small
industrial useage, and would end up as a bunch of filings in the bottom of any gearcase which is having bike power put through it. Remember, the
engine torque is multiplied by the gearbox, before it gets to the OD/Rev box. This thing isn't a toy, and will have to handle a good deal of
torque, and more than occasional shock load from having a heavy clutch dumped on it at a good amount of revs.
You might find something similar to 2.5 module in the gearcase of a wiper motor, by way of example.
The cf, well, I won't comment further.
What you've made so far in ali is very pretty, but I think you may have to brush up on your engineering a little. Pretty isn't necessarily
the correct design or strength.
I'm only trying to be helpful. I won't be making pretty, it's not seen. Function is paramount, and mine will be going in a
racecar
Fellas don't listen to Nev he doesn't know what he's talking about, even after 30 years on the
job!
I all ready have working prototype (/w out the CF case of course). Don't need to read no design books Nev. Mine will be available far quicker
than yours.
Proof is in the pudding, proof is in the pudding. I live in American NASCAR countrty and I have access to
all automotive juggernaut minds. My uncle builds and races dragster, bro
Nev, maybe I'll send you a free box once I sell a couple and teach you some manners.
[Edited on 11/1/12 by yahshuatwo]
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loggyboy
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 03:21 PM |
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I think that sums it up- the proof is indeed in the pudding. Lets stand and watch to see what happens.....
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 05:54 PM |
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Ive been talking in pitches with the gearcutters, so have mixed terminology and numbers.
I can get the costs down by designing to use the cutters which are on hand. The guys at the gear makers have a very comprehensive range available, as
well as what is currently in use by a couple of big gearbox mfrs.
I'll stand by what I've said on strengths.
Given the confines of a Locost tunnel, the geometry in which the box has to fit is fairly well fixed. A hyabusa at full chat in first gear will put a
good load on the gear train, and this has to be accounted for, and not just reverse.
I've also got an eye to using the box for compensating diff ratios for cec's. It would be far easier, quicker and cheaper to change a pair
of gears than to swap out a diff. This then makes it a viable option falling short of the big expense of cwp's, which give a fixed ratio change.
Sort of like a quick change diff, but in the driveline.
I'm also looking at reducing part count, by utilising the old fashioned method of sliding the gears for engagement, thus taking away the need
for dogs. Nice and simple, and keeping the gears in engagement by using helical toothform. Thus the driving gears will keep engaged with thrust. Only
needs a very slight angle. Keep the reverse trio straight.
Anyway, at my current workload, this isn't going to happen until mid year, as I've put previously.
And 'yahshuatwo', I wouldn't have the effrontery to call myself what you have, knowing the origins of the words. Yahshua the second
you most certainly are not. You'll have to explain it on the day.
Now, before throwing another hissy fit Mr.Yahshua, get hold of a gearbox out of a 2l~3l car, and check the gear sizes on the final pair of first gears
on the layshaft. Then make them bigger by a percentage. It's as simple as that. You may find your 2.5 module a little light in comparison.
Cheers,
nev.
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yahshuatwo
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 07:33 PM |
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Nev
I'm glad you know a little about 'Yahshua' because 99% of the world does not!. My intent is to give YAHSHUA credit and glory
because he helped me design the RBox anyhow. I've decerned your 'intent ' all the way since your first post on my thread and It has
been
nefarious, planting doubt, attempting to discredit my design without proof. Get the behind me Satan thou art an offense to me.
All you're doing is making me more determined to prove you wrong!
Go research 'Dr. Kinley' you might learn you some sense.
I'm man enough to admitt my design flaw if the current design doesn't pan out.
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 07:49 PM |
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I would, in all sincerity, want to see what you build succeed. Whether buyers will prefer a pretty, expensive item, or a cheap functional item will be
borne out with time.
You come across as a very cocky and mouthy youngster.
I'll leave you to your own now, after all, you seem much more informed than I, as you don't have the need for reference books.
The art of a good engineer, I was taught, is not to carry all of his knowledge in his head, but to know where to look and find the knowledge, and how
to apply it. You may have John Boy and Billy Bob in their NASCARS to talk to, I'll stick to my teaching of First Principles, and where to get my
information in particular references. Then there's the gearcutters who have, and still do, make gears for top racing classes, whose ear and
interest I have had for far too many years.
You, by your own words, are above this. You know what you are doing.
Please, get your gearbox built and sold to a punter here, then I can see how, or not maybe, I should proceed.
Cheers,
nev.
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yahshuatwo
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 07:50 PM |
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Nev, not mad at you but a little annoyed. Sounds like you know a thing or two about gears and transmissions. My design is so simple, no need to
re-invent the wheel. But when it comes to YAHSHUA you don't know who you're dealing with. I would happy to give you some reference
material if you desire. I'm Yahweh and so is everyone else.
Sorry if I have offended anyone on this thread
Yahshuatwo.
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 08:02 PM |
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I won't even begin to answer that lot.
Get on with it.
Cheers,
Nev.
The world is full of cranks and crackpots. Some places moreso than others.
I think I'll go find an abo, a roo thighbone, and.....job done!
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yahshuatwo
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 08:17 PM |
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Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda and named others, have already proven my design at some degree. I'm riding there coattails if you get the point.
I'm not a cocky youngters, you drove me to that disposition with your comments.
Your Target market is definitely not BEC locost! No one can afford your design from what you're describing. My product will be competitive with
Quafie and Westfields inline boxes. I'm not targeting 400 HP/175 ft torque applications at the moment. Most installations in the states
don't even have busa engines (ie. 190 HP / 110 ft torque) but my design is resilient. Potential customers can 'upgrade' bearings,
shafts if needed
In all fairness, we i different target markets - there is plenty of pie to go around
Nev, Do your research on Dr. Kinley.
Cheers,
Ryan
[Edited on 11/1/12 by yahshuatwo]
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 08:41 PM |
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Look up Dave Gorman, he had an interesting interview with that mob of nutcases you are referring to, shown here on TV a few nights ago.
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yahshuatwo
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 08:55 PM |
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Ok will do. Was Christ a nutcase? How can you prove he existed? some might call you a nutcase for designing a box no one can afford
This creation is a great mystery. Graham Hancock knows some stuff too. For what ever you seek, please demand proof.
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 08:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Nice and simple, and keeping the gears in engagement by using helical toothform. Thus the driving gears will keep engaged with thrust. Only needs a
very slight angle. Keep the reverse trio straight.
What would happen on overrun?
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steve m
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 09:07 PM |
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Jesus, you guys need to give it a break, or change gear
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yahshuatwo
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| posted on 11/1/12 at 09:23 PM |
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We are Steve M, its just our egos and competitve nature playing in. I'm designing a gearbox, Nev is designing one too. Nev attacked my design
first out of his insecurites, so I attacked back. No hard feelings between us two; Nev seems to be a very knowledge bloke with a lot of experience.
No need for us to spat anymore, there is enough customers for both of us, although his product isn't 'locost' affordable. I'm
gonna be the bigger man and change gears.. I will at some point ask Nev for friendly advice if I run into a snag with my design.
My design uses spurs gears like most of the jap 1 litre bike engines. They may have a little more backlash than Nev helicals, but the'yre
stronger and not as loud as most would expect. I built a prototype box in 2010' and have it install in my 02' locost yahbusa car, and it
works very well. I haven't driven it in a pure racing scenario, but i'm confident it would hold up well.
God Bless Nev, and this forum. I've learned a lot about BEC building from everyone's input through the years on this site.
Cheers,
Yahshuatwo
[Edited on 11/1/12 by yahshuatwo]
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 12/1/12 at 11:46 AM |
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As a very, very final word from myself, I will repeat my initial post, abridged for today, and only add that this IS a personal project, and
not for income, so no, I don't have to price to make big profits. I'll stand by all I've put below, and as I work 'in the
trade', I can assure everyone that what I've put is as things are today. Steel and aluminium prices are rising, and the little that the
price may rise is not a significant factor at present.
I am not in this to compete(except on track), and most here should by now be well aware of my gross disdain for the pricing( and excess profiteering)
of motorsport and performance targetted parts.
I will be here for the foreseeable future, to give any support necessary, by way of parts and advice.
Finally, I'd like to thank all of those who have contacted me. I am keeping a short list which now near justifies a short run, and will be in
touch when I get this project underway in earnest.
Cheers,
Nev.
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
I've been working on something very similar for myself for a while. Straight cut gears, although helical is not a lot more pricewise, and dog
change...................................... overdrive to bring bike revs down to little more than car. ~1:1.3+/-
Cost of the gears and shafts I've been quoted at less than £120, made here in London. The casing is £45 for a batch of 10, then theres the
machining and the shift yokes. If a man was resourceful, he could make the whole thing using gears from one of the Hewland or the ex-Staffs racing
'boxes, for little more cost.
Should end up well under £400.
I'll be doing it when I get my little bike engined project moving...... next year. I wouldn't be looking to make these boxes commercially,
but if the demand is there...
Configuration will be with double input and output bearings, specifically for use parallel to the engine crank and chain drive.
I know I could get the gears made cheaper in USA, and where to go, but they want big batches(>100)
.............................................................................................................
Cheers,
Nev.
Also, there will not be an exchange of knowledge westward, at least not without my per diem.
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yahshuatwo
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| posted on 12/1/12 at 12:35 PM |
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NEV, one final note also for you... Please don't highjack my thread, start your own where you can solicate your design - very unstatesman to
do mine. I will be happy to provide you a per diem for your knowledege (westward) IF required.
thanks again Nev for making the thread lively, I wish you the best of luck on your project.
cheers,
Ryan aka (Yahshuatwo)
[Edited on 12/1/12 by yahshuatwo]
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:{THC}:YosamiteSam
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| posted on 15/1/12 at 05:31 PM |
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iv ran out of pop corn -  ) some may laugh at bickering but in the end it has its uses - you say what you mean and you learn from any mistakes.. kiss
and hug please ?
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bobinspain
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| posted on 15/1/12 at 05:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by :{THC}:YosamiteSam
iv ran out of pop corn - ) some may laugh at bickering but in the end it has its uses - you say what you mean and you learn from any mistakes.. kiss
and hug please ?
Been following it with interest too. (I know who my money's on).
BTW, our French pal won't understand 'defo.' and our usual colloquialisms/shorthand. I realise it's well intentioned.
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yahshuatwo
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| posted on 15/1/12 at 06:50 PM |
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Hotep...
[Edited on 15/1/12 by yahshuatwo]
[Edited on 15/1/12 by yahshuatwo]
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yahshuatwo
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| posted on 25/1/12 at 08:34 PM |
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another take at the RODBox with shift mount attached. I need to drill another hole thru the CF for the ball plunger set screw (will keep gears in
correct position without sliding around). Man, the CF cover is resilent!! Strong, lightweight, definitely will take a beating.
Received the 2.5 MOD gears from beltingonline and moved them to the local machinist for boring and spline broaching- expensive - we will see? Those
gears will work swell after hardening and stress-relieving.
[Edited on 25/1/12 by yahshuatwo]
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yahshuatwo
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| posted on 27/3/12 at 11:30 PM |
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Just a few weeks out from testing the FNR + overdrive RBOX. I can't wait to see it in action. I sold my prototype reverse unit after making a
few mods to it. The gentleman who purchased it will install it into the following:
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=11901
this is an endurance race in the states, so my prototype will be put to the test..
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Hellfire
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| posted on 17/8/12 at 04:05 PM |
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Any news on either Nev's or Yahshuatwo's reverse/overdrive boxes yet?
Yahshuatwo's youtube link no longer works and he doesn't appear to have been active on here since his last post in March...........
Phil
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yahshuatwo
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| posted on 17/8/12 at 06:12 PM |
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Im still here and working out some kinks in the design. I ran into some oil seal issues with the CF cover (im sure Nev is happy to hear this). easy
fix and will male it happen soon. I have two boxes completed and to ready begin inital testing , minus oil seal issue.
A lot of hats to put on: R&D, website, finances, marketing - a one man show.
Https://sales.powergearperformance.com (ignore the ssl cert mssg, a whole another issue to fix)
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yahshuatwo
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| posted on 19/8/12 at 12:49 AM |
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[img] [/img]
[Edited on 19/8/12 by yahshuatwo]
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smorse
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| posted on 19/8/12 at 08:38 AM |
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hi, sorry but i havent time to read the full topic, ive had my westfield reverse gearbox in my car for the last 8 years with no problems & what
ive always wanted is to be able to change the gear ratios with out keep swapping the diffs over, at the moment i have a blade 893cc feeding a quaife
3.21 LSD diff via a 1:1 RGB.
So one day i would like to do a sprint/ hillclimb, the next doing to a trackday say around silverstone & the next cruising along a motorway to a
kit car show, so in in a nutshell & preferably in layman terms what has yours to offer?
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