matt_gsxr
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| posted on 14/2/09 at 10:53 PM |
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Look what I found in my sump!
Title gives is away a bit.
The oil pressure was high on my GSXR1100wp (100psi, although that is also the max on the gauge, manual suggest 80psi is normal) so I thought the PRV
might be stuck. I had a spare so I popped open the sump.
Turned out the oil strainer was a bit clogged (with fluff which was a bit wierd), so that wasn't encouraging, and doesn't start to explain
the HIGH oil pressure.
Anyway, I cleaned things up and such. The old PRV seemed to operate pretty much the same as the one that I replaced it with, although if it had a
slightly stronger spring it would have been difficult to detect.
Now the "fun" bit. I cleaned out the sump as it was slightly gunky and came across this (see photo). Any ideas what it is, and why its
there?
 
alien visitor in sump
I know its not right and that I have a problem. My question is, how big is the problem and should I cry now or later?
My current is to use this engine to get through SVA (it has all the right numbers and is pre Aug 95 so I can register with easy emissions). I may
change the engine later (either to an ex-sidecar version which has been tweaked, or to something more modern).
Any thoughts on what I am looking at and how to fix it would be appreciated. I have some thoughts, but they are only that.
Matt
p.s. The engine runs fine, but I haven't driven it so the gearbox/clutch are unproven.
p.p.s the battery is for scale, and wasn't in the sump!!!
[Edited on 14/2/09 by matt_gsxr]
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roadrunner
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| posted on 14/2/09 at 11:15 PM |
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it looks like a battery to me, but i have had half a boottle of champers and a bottle of red wine , so i am no good at all , sorry. 
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 14/2/09 at 11:17 PM |
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I edited my message before you sent that (unless you are a very slow typer).
Thanks for your support ;-)
Matt
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roadrunner
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| posted on 14/2/09 at 11:22 PM |
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I guessed that, to me it could be nothing or something bad, but i am sure someone will be along soon who knows.
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 14/2/09 at 11:26 PM |
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yeah,
I am a few beers and a bottle of something sparkling into the evening.
I fluctuate between
"its probably nothing, maybe a bit that fell off an old clutch before it was replaced, and the guy couldn't be bothered to fish it from
the sump"
and
"get real, its all buggered, and the whole idea of SVA is just a fond memory. You need to contact the bank manager or sell a child
pronto".
Let see what they say!
Matt
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hobbsy
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| posted on 14/2/09 at 11:32 PM |
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Not the best of photos and I don't know that engine but it looks a little like one of those bits that you pass a bolt through that holds your
cam cover on?
The same things that usually stay stuck in the cam cover but can drop out right when you don't want them too.
I did this with a tin top once and after a lot of swearing I was over joyed when a friend with a torch and a telescopic magnet on a stick thing
managed to retrieve it from the depths of my engine (cam chain engine - SR20DET - and managed to drop it down the front cover where I'm pretty
sure it can clank all the way down to the sump).
I could be completely wrong however.
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tendoshingan
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| posted on 14/2/09 at 11:51 PM |
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Yep, I'd agree it looks like a cam shoulder for the bolts.
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 15/2/09 at 12:12 AM |
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I so want to agree.
I will try to post a better picture. The problem is that this has seen some action.
Would you expect that of something that had bounced around a sump for a while. I guess it could have been piling into the bottom of the crankshaft,
but the sump (aluminium) hasn't sustained any real dents that I notice, and this bit is proper steel.
i.d. looks like M6. But I can't find what you are talking about in the microfiche.
Will post a picture in a couple of mins
Matt
[Edited on 15/2/09 by matt_gsxr]
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 15/2/09 at 12:31 AM |
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Try this.
Its been pretty thoroughly beaten and bruised.
 
big image of dodgy part in smp
I have a couple of options.
1) crack on as before. Get the car ready for SVA, hope that it works sufficiently well.
2) take the engine out and start a rebuild.
I guess I am going to go for number 1.
The engine seems to run. If I can get the clutch working again (problems here, but I don't believe they are necessarily related to this), then I
will see if it goes into gear. Running and getting into gear will be sufficient for SVA, so that is my present position.
Maybe I should post this picture on the oldskool suzuki forum, as those guys will be more familiar with this (I appreciate that GSXR1100 isn't
very popular in BEC install).
Thanks for your help and ideas,
Matt
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Hellfire
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| posted on 15/2/09 at 07:46 AM |
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Matt,
The old philosophy is 'you'll find out what it is when it stops working'.
It's certainly not a critical part due to the fact that it's not a precision machined part - machined all over due to it's apparent
forged surface finish.
I wouldn't worry to much - it looks like it's taken some abuse whilst working it's way to it's final resting place in the
sump.
Fingers Crossed... Steve
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 15/2/09 at 09:15 AM |
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I thought I was an optimist!
I am surprised that there are any parts in a modern motorcycle engine that are "non-essential" but lets hope that there are.
Suzuki group haven't recognised the part yet. I will take off the cam cover this morning and see what is in there (expect the worst, hope for
the best).
Thanks again,
Matt
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rf900rush
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| posted on 15/2/09 at 09:29 AM |
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Ref your oil pressure
I have had 2 RF900 engines in my Rush a both read over 100psi when cold.
Seen normal when warm.
I guess your oil pressure should be the same as the RF900's as the bottom end is almost identical.
Martin
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pewe
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| posted on 15/2/09 at 11:33 AM |
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Looks like one of the spacers used on the clutch basket to me.
Beggars the question that if it is are the others loose or likely to drop off?
Also is there a set-screw that held it in and where is that?
Can you not access the clutch cover and check in there?
In any case I'd put a magnetic sump plug in just to catch any of the bits still circulating.
Cheers, Pewe 
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OX
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| posted on 15/2/09 at 12:11 PM |
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looks like a little top-hat spacer that goes through a rubber grommet.,
could of dropped off the fairing when the engine was in the bike
[Edited on 15/2/09 by OX]
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 15/2/09 at 01:17 PM |
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quote:
could of dropped off the fairing when the engine was in the bike
Wow now that would be an interesting journey.
Don't know much about bikes but it does look like a rivet end similar to a clutch pressure plate one on a car. looks like it's had a hard
life for a while as well.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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blackie
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| posted on 15/2/09 at 01:37 PM |
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IMHO there's only option 2 to go for - if I found a bit of broken off chewed metal in your sump, my first question would be "so where are
the other broken bits".
Everyone here knows that Murphy's Law prevails & the rest of the bits will end up in a chain or in a bearing just as the car is rolling in
to be SVA'd & if this happens, you'll spend a lot of time (not to mention money) wishing you'd sorted the engine out when you
had the chance to do it cheaply.
Your engine has spoken to you - listen to it or face the consequences!!
ATB
DB
[Edited on 15/2/09 by blackie]
[Edited on 15/2/09 by blackie]
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 15/2/09 at 04:22 PM |
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Update:
I took the cam cover off.
Not much to report. A tiny bit of broken washer hidden in the side near one of the cylinder head bolts.
Also the cam cover gasket was installed the wrong way around. This indicates only that this has been off before, and probably not by anyone
associated with Suzuki.
The cam chain was tight, and the cams looked decent (as much as I could see without rotating the engine).
I think I have worked out where the bit comes from. It is a spacer on the gear selection mechanism.
I am fairly sure it is one of the 2 part number 18's in this diagram. As it should go over a bolt this must also have come out at some
point.
This isn't inconsistent with my experience of the engine. It runs, but I haven't changed gear.
Any ideas how to get to this without taking the whole engine apart?
the good news is that the part is only about £2.50 ;-)
Matt
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 15/2/09 at 04:27 PM |
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Thanks Mr RF900_Rush,
So the oil pressure was fine all along.
I agree regarding similarity of bottom end. The manual suggests oil too thick, or clogged oilways. Lets hope its the former.
Interestingly I could have left this and it would have discovered at SVA.
I guess I need to hope for dry weather.
Matt
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 16/2/09 at 09:25 AM |
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update.
I'm taking the clutch out as that gets me a good look at both clutch and gear selection bits.
Thanks for all the comments on what else is wrong. I agree it is a worry, but I got this engine as it is pre 95 and so is well suited to SVA (no cat,
easy emissions). If I can get past SVA before it goes "pop" then that is probably alright. I don't know the history of the engine,
and it may be that the other bits have already been washed out (I got the engine empty of oil). Who knows.
Any top tips if you don't have the special suzuki "clutch sleeve hub holder"?
the good thing is that I have excellent access to the clutch end of the engine and it isn't snowing.
Matt
[Edited on 18/2/09 by matt_gsxr]
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