Mark18
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| posted on 25/2/04 at 06:34 PM |
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What year Fireblade?
Since kit-cars over here are registered by year of build, what year Fireblade should I go for? Obviously the newer bikes are more powerful, but IIRC
the exhaust manifold and some other important bits are different - meaning that aftermarket manifolds etc. may not work with a newer engine.
I also have a question about emmissions, namely how will a fireblade fare under the following criteria:
Carbon monoxide content no more than 0.3% @ 2500RPM
Hydrocarbon content no more than 200 P.P.M. @ 2500RPM
I have no idea, but since it's done by RPM, I presume the bike is at an advantage, I'm wondering whether there is a remote chance that
this is enough to override the need for a catalystic converter. Also, the car is tested every 2 years, so the rent a cat idea won't really
work.
I realise this second question is quite specific, but I am constantly amazed by the amount of information on this forum, so I thought I'd give
it a pop
Mark
"I don't know what I may seem to the world. But as to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore and diverting myself
now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than the ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." -
Isaac Newton
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alister667
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| posted on 25/2/04 at 10:02 PM |
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As far as I know once you get past a 1999 engine the 2000 is a fuel injection unit that is entirely different from the 1993-1999 carbourettor engines.
From 1993-1999 the engines are similar, in that they would use the same mounts and (as far as I know) exhaust manifolds etc.
I know the NCT is different to the MOT, but it would be well worth making absolutely sure the emissions test applies even for engines manufactured
before emissions regulations.
I've had a quick scan through my Fireblade Haynes manual, but can't find the emmissions levels you mention.
Luckily the MOT test only checks for visible smoke and not emmisions on kit cars, hence the rent-a-cat phenomenum.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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loafersmate
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| posted on 25/2/04 at 10:10 PM |
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Any engine built post Aug 95' needs a cat at SVA but if you're registering as Q plate or age related the for the MOT it will only get a
visible smoke test.....so rent a cat for SVA. I got my engine age (94' verified by sending a letter to Honda with the engine number and £30
and got a certificate back.
As for the blade engine it can't come more highly regarded. Although the later engines have slightly more power, the early engines (93/4/5) have
the most 'kick' or agressive power delivery, later versions have got softer and softer but I suspect the new 2004 will be a bit of a
beast.
Mine sailed through SVA with standard airbox modded to fit under bonnet and std jetting.......goes like stink too!
Ben
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Mark18
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| posted on 25/2/04 at 10:33 PM |
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Thanks for the reply's
I'm afraid the NCT goes by the year of car registration for emmission purposes (as opposed to engine manufacture date)
As for renting a cat; not really feasable since the car is fully tested for Carbon Monoxide and Hydrocarbons every 2 years
But as I said above emmision levels are taken at 2500RPM - at which point a car will be starting to kick into it's power band, whereas in a bike
you're almost idling at that speed. As far as I can see a fireblade would sail through the tests with a catalistic converter (please crrect me
if I'm wrong) but I want to find out how it would do without one.
Mark
[Edited on 25/2/04 by Mark18]
"I don't know what I may seem to the world. But as to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore and diverting myself
now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than the ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." -
Isaac Newton
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ChrisBradley04
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| posted on 26/2/04 at 02:00 PM |
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Mark,
Does the emissions test you need to go through also check for Lamda (i.e. fuel/air ratio)? I am just going through a load of pain to get through SVA
on my 2003 R1 engine and it isn't easy.
The first test they do at SVA is Lamda to make sure you haven't leaned off the mixture to reduce the HC. They then test CO and HC to the limits
you describe. If lamda is 1 (i.e. a pass) and HC is above 200ppm then you'll need a catalytic converter.
I thought I had cracked it when I decided to use the R1 exhaust can which has a catalytic converter in it, but it's didn't work. This is
because on a bike 2500 revs is, as you say, almost tickover and the cat isn't hot enough to work properly. The low rev limit appears to work
against us here. As a result, I am now using a much bigger cat and hope to pass SVA one day!!!
So, in summary, while I have little experience of the blade engine I wouldn't underestimate how difficult it is to get through the cat test.
That is, unless you don't need to pass the Lamda test, in which case it should just be achievable by fiddling with the mixture.
HTH,
Regards
Chris
[Edited on 26/2/04 by ChrisBradley04]
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alister667
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| posted on 26/2/04 at 06:20 PM |
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I know a guy in the ulster kit car club, and I'm pretty sure they know some folks down south with a Dax registered in Kildare I think. I
don't think it's a BEC, but maybe they will know someone who knows someone. If they worst comes to the worst you'll have to run it
with the cat I guess.
I'll make enquiries.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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Mark18
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| posted on 26/2/04 at 06:21 PM |
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From the NCT book:
"The car will fail if... the Lambda value at 2500RPM or at the speed specified by the vehicle manufacturer is not between 0.7-1.3 or within the
vehicle manufacturers reccomendation."
Doesn't sound good. Just out of interest on the R1, how far off 200ppm was the bike without a cat?
Mark
[Edited on 26/2/04 by Mark18]
"I don't know what I may seem to the world. But as to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore and diverting myself
now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than the ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." -
Isaac Newton
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alister667
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| posted on 26/2/04 at 06:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loafersmate
Any engine built post Aug 95' needs a cat at SVA but if you're registering as Q plate or age related the for the MOT it will only get a
visible smoke test.....so rent a cat for SVA.
Wrong country mate
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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Mark18
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| posted on 26/2/04 at 06:26 PM |
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The gesture is still much appreciated
Mark
"I don't know what I may seem to the world. But as to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore and diverting myself
now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than the ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." -
Isaac Newton
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alister667
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| posted on 26/2/04 at 06:58 PM |
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Actually i am curious to know what is the process for an amateur build down south?
Is there an equivilant to the SVA? Or do you build it, register it then after 3 years have to start NCTing it every two years?
Is there any road worthiness check at the end of the build?
I have a mate in Ennis who I think might be getting tempted into a BEC build!
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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Mark18
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| posted on 26/2/04 at 07:14 PM |
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No SVA as far as I know, to register your car allyou need is an insurance cert, which basically consists of supplying info about the car and possibly
a guy has a quick look over the car as far as I know.
I think upon registration you need to NCT the car and then every 2 years after that.
Mark
"I don't know what I may seem to the world. But as to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore and diverting myself
now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than the ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." -
Isaac Newton
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ChrisBradley04
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| posted on 26/2/04 at 07:27 PM |
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Mark,
Can I just double check the Lamda range you are allowed. We have to fall within 0.97-1.03, which is a very tight range - is yours definatley
0.7-1.3?
In answer to your question, my test results were as follows
No cat results
- Lambda 1.26 = HC 220ppm
- Lambda 0.99 = HC 1030 ppm
Bike cat results
- Lambda 1.26 = HC 40ppm
- Lambda 0.99 = HC 280ppm
You can see my problem even when using the bike cat, when lamda is within range then the HC is still too high. Without the cat you can forget it!!
That's why I am now using a big car sized cat that is 6 times bigger than the bike cat and have everything crossed for the retest.
If your lamda range is definately 0.7-1.3 then I would be tempted to have a crack at leaning the engine out for the test and trying to see if you can
get the HC in limit. It's going to be fiddly and you definatley do not want to be driving an engine that is so lean.
My engine is injected so I use a Power Commander to adjust the fuelling, but I can't imagine it will be much if any easier to reliably manage
the fuelling with carbs.
Regards
Chris
www.fisherfury.com
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Mark18
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| posted on 27/2/04 at 06:30 PM |
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Sorry about that, you're absolutely right - .97 - 1.03.
Mark
"I don't know what I may seem to the world. But as to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore and diverting myself
now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than the ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." -
Isaac Newton
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loafersmate
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| posted on 27/2/04 at 10:25 PM |
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Wrong country mate
Err point taken........message to self.........must read question FULLY before answering!!
Ben
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alister667
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| posted on 28/2/04 at 10:45 AM |
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I've done it myself two or three times, and I'm sure I'll do it again!!
Cheers
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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