leemarkadams
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 06:03 AM |
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Cyclelock!
Hello all, could anyone tell me how I can check the cyclelock is bypassed correctly on my r1 loom, or how I can ensure it is. Car was working fine
but now the fuel pump is not working and not getting a spark?
The loom is a 00/01 r1 loom.
Thanks
leee
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jeffw
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 06:05 AM |
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Don't know if this is of any use to you...
http://www.robcollingridge.com/kitcar/build/2006/04/index.html
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speed8
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 10:01 AM |
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Lee
Does the fuel pump work on it's own? i.e. if you put 12V to the pump does it run?
You need to confirm all that to us before you start trying to figure out cyclelocks as that has most likely been removed and bypassed in any case.
The start circuit relay is really fairly simple as it's basically 2 relays with a few safetys to prevent them energising if some conditions
aren't met.
Check the pump independently. Remove the relay if you don't want to cut wires and put 12V down the fuel pump wire from the connector. It should
run.
If the pump is fine like that then at least we can rule that out.
It's hard to help when you haven't confirmed that you tried the other things we're suggesting. We just keep going round in circles
on all the different threads.
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 10:06 AM |
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If I connect a positive direct to the fuel pump positive it will work.
Hoping to get a few hours on the car tonight , so hoping to get some progress!
Lee
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speed8
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 10:48 AM |
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I'm starting to wonder if your ECU/ICU is actually getting 12V.
Just to confirm something, if you take the blue/red to ground (splice a wire in with a scotchlok or something) and turn on your ignition. Does the
pump run now? That will confirm that part of the relay works and all the wiring to the pump is fine.
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 11:05 AM |
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Will try that later as will be home tonight as driving home now
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 02:40 PM |
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The blue/red is getting a negative feed when the ign is on, but not when it is off. I hav ran a wire from the neg of the battery straight to it with
no change.
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speed8
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 03:53 PM |
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Did you run the -ve wire to the blue/red with the ignition on and the relay connected?
The blue/red goes to ground through the ecu so it controls when the fuel pump is on/off.
If you look at the relay you'll see what I mean.
Red/black is the 12V in which goes through the relay to the ecu on the blue/red. it needs to go to ground to complete the circuit and energise the
relay to give 12V to the fuel pump.
If you don't want to cut the wire, remove the fuel pipe at the engine side (do you have a return pipe or only supply?). Turn on your ignition
and turn it over. If you get fuel coming out the pump is working.
If we're going to try and narrow it down further we need to know if the pump works through the relay. I'm starting to suspect that one of
the 12V supplies to the ECU isn't working but no point chasing that if we don't even know if you're getting a properly working fuel
pump.
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 04:21 PM |
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Once again, thanks for all the help (once this is working I will oew you a few drinks!)
I have connected a -ve directly to it with the relay connected and the ign on.
Without a -ve directly connected I have tested the blue/red wire with a multimeter and am getting nothing when the ign is off, but getting a -ve when
the ign is on.
Regarding the fuel pump, if I connect a positive directly it works...
Lee
[Edited on 16/8/09 by leemarkadams]
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speed8
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 04:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by leemarkadams
I have connected a -ve directly to it with the relay connected and the ign on.
And does the pump run?
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 05:07 PM |
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Sorry, should have said, it still does not run. I can get it to run by going straight from the battery to the pump positive however.
Ok, been and tested all the connections on the relay and here are the results:
Red/Black = +ve
Black/Yellow = -ve
Blue/Red = -ve (but only for 7 seconds after ign turned on, then nothing)
Black/Blue = -ve
Blue/Yellow = -ve
Light Blue = -ve (when in neutral, else no signal)
Light Blue/White = -ve
Blue/White = +ve
Black wire 1 = -ve
Black wire 2 = connected to another black wire and when they are connected to earth the starter motor turns.
Is this any help?
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afj
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 06:27 PM |
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it would help no end if you put your location under your avatar, you will probably have a locoster within a few miles who may be able to help, even
if its just a second set of eyes to check what you ve checked
eerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 06:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by afj
it would help no end if you put your location under your avatar, you will probably have a locoster within a few miles who may be able to help, even
if its just a second set of eyes to check what you ve checked
Good point and have just done that!
Lee
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 06:56 PM |
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That's another 2 hours achieving the square root of f alll!
Mau juat bite the bullet and redo all the wiring from scratch, as I am at a loss now!
So, does anyone have the easiest way to wire up my car without using the stupid bloody relays and cyclelock system, and yes, I am a little but
annoyed!
Thanks all
Lee
PS The missus is threatening me with selling it if I do not get it fixed soon!
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speed8
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 07:03 PM |
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Lets try a different tack just to see if the ECU is getting power to it. Mine is an 03 so a bit different.
(Also, if you look at 2000US wiring you'll see the relay without the Cyclelock. Looks like the only difference is the black to black to ground
through your starter button so it has been bypassed properly it seems.)
Right
Disconnect the ECU and check the following at the ecu connector.
Check with VDC setting as you have been doing already.
brown/black 12V +ve
red/white 12V +ve
Check continuity with your ohm setting and ignition off (I normally use 20k or higher).
Black to battery earth (there's 2 blacks. one is for sure to earth (the thickest one probably), the other one comes from the cyclelock.
If only one black goes to ground then do the following.
Still for continuity... check the non earth black to the blue/yellow at the relay with ignition off.
[Edited on 16/8/2009 by speed8]
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 07:17 PM |
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right
looking at you readings, and going from yam wiring diagram.
blue/red goes to ecu
blue/black goes to pump
what's confusing me is the seven second delay on the blue/red. this is about the time the pump primes when you turn the ignition on for before
cranking it, do me a favor and put your meter on it again, switch the ign on and get the 12v for seven seconds then it will power off now crank the
engine and see if the 12v comes back when cranking the engine, I know absolutely F==k all about electrics but the way it works is turn ignition on
pump will prime for seven secs approx then stop but will work again when you start cranking engine, stop cranking pump stops.
tony
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 07:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by speed8
Lets try a different tack just to see if the ECU is getting power to it. Mine is an 03 so a bit different.
(Also, if you look at 2000US wiring you'll see the relay without the Cyclelock. Looks like the only difference is the black to black to ground
through your starter button so it has been bypassed properly it seems.)
Right
Disconnect the ECU and check the following at the ecu connector.
Check with VDC setting as you have been doing already.
brown/black 12V +ve passed
red/white 12V +ve passed
Check continuity with your ohm setting and ignition off (I normally use 20k or higher).
Black to battery earth (there's 2 blacks. one is for sure to earth (the thickest one probably), the other one comes from the cyclelock.
If only one black goes to ground then do the following.
Still for continuity... check the non earth black to the blue/yellow at the relay with ignition off.
Both seem to go to earth!
[Edited on 16/8/2009 by speed8]
Thanks once more.........have had enough of the sodding thing for today, so it will have to wait a few weeks now! What is so frustrating is that it
was working fine before, until it coughed and spluttered then died! As said , the fuel pump was bust, so changed that, then the relay and now the ECU
all to no avail. It has to be a loose wire or something........
Is there a way to make a simpler loom bypassing all this relay rubbish?
Thanks
Lee
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 07:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mad-butcher
right
looking at you readings, and going from yam wiring diagram.
blue/red goes to ecu
blue/black goes to pump
what's confusing me is the seven second delay on the blue/red. this is about the time the pump primes when you turn the ignition on for before
cranking it, do me a favor and put your meter on it again, switch the ign on and get the 12v for seven seconds then it will power off now crank the
engine and see if the 12v comes back when cranking the engine, I know absolutely F==k all about electrics but the way it works is turn ignition on
pump will prime for seven secs approx then stop but will work again when you start cranking engine, stop cranking pump stops.
tony
Just done that, it does give a negative for about 7 secs then nothing, however when try to start it still nothing......
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adithorp
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| posted on 17/8/09 at 07:30 AM |
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When you switch on does the pump prime? ie. does it run for those 7 seconds?
How is your ignition/start up arranged? Does it go through the Sierra ignition switch/lock?
Have you been behind the dash and checked the connections?
adrian
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 17/8/09 at 07:53 AM |
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The pump does not even prime for the seven seconds (it used to). I have looked at the wiring many times and cant see anything loose.
I will give it a rest for a bit and then start again.
Lee
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