kingr
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 posted on 8/4/04 at 10:55 AM |
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R1 not running
Hello all,
I'm really hoping someone can help, I'm trying to get my R1 engine started, but all I get is a single "fire" and that's
all. I'm guessing that this is a fuel problem because I assume it wouldn't fire at all if it was an ignition problem, plus if I leave it a
little while before retrying I get a bigger bang than if I don't leave it very long, which suggests something is accumulating. I get some fuel
spattering out of the carbs when I turn the engine over, I guessing that this isn't normal? I've tried cleaning the carbs, but they
didn't seem too bad inside, plus I couldn't really work out what would need cleaning.
Inside the float chamber there is a small brass screw with a hole in it (the main jet?) which definitely wasn't blocked, that screw is set into
a larger brass tube inside which is a small brass rod with holes in, which I couldn't see how would come out. There was also another small screw
which was longer with holes round the outside towards the bottom, I gave these a quick blast with compressed air, but they didn't seem very bad
anyway. Just inside the belmouths there's another small brass screw with hole (pilot jet?) which isn't blocked either. I took one of the
slides out and the big needle didn't seem dirty, but I'm guessing that this doesn't have an effect till the revs increase and the
slides open anyway?
Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should be looking at or the best way to clean the carbs and which bits need cleaning?
Kingr
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 8/4/04 at 11:23 AM |
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I assume you have got the plug leads and coil triggers on the right way round? I wired up an 893 blade once and put the coil triggers on the wrong way
round (it would have been correct for a 919 like mine). It always seemed to initially fire just about, but obviously never ran. Sadly I didnt realise
before I opened the throttle to "help" which resulted in a huge backfire (without silencer) that nearly deafened us and almost knocked the
garage door down 
Also, what fuel pump have you got and is it supplying the correct pressure of fuel to the carbs?
[Edited on 8/4/04 by ChrisGamlin]
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kingr
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| posted on 8/4/04 at 11:37 AM |
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The wire to the coils is keyed, so I'm confident that's ok, the HT leads are numbered and connected with no.1 towards the rear of the car
and no. 4 at the front. I've got a facet solid state fuel pump, I've just been running the fuel pump seperately to let it fill the carb
bowls, then turning it off and trying to start the engine - does it have to be running while the engine is? I assumed it wouldn't make any
difference since it's just filling the carb bowls.
Kingr
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Digger Barnes
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| posted on 8/4/04 at 12:09 PM |
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Just a quick question have you had the cams out at any stage?
The reason I ask this is because on most bike engines it is possible to put them in 180 degrees out of phase.
After all an engine is basically a piston pump which is driven by internal reaction.
This causes the engine to sort of pump in the wrong direction and hence blowing fuel out of the back of the carbs (as you describe this as happening I
thought I should mention this).
This mistake is resonably easy to make when putting the cams back in.
Just a thought
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Peteff
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| posted on 8/4/04 at 12:26 PM |
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Sounds like the leads to me as well. We did the same with a gsxr and had some awesome pyrotechnics, 2ft flames from exhaust. It ran straight away with
the coil leads swapped. It should run till the floats are emptied without the pump running.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 8/4/04 at 12:31 PM |
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The fuel pump shouldnt need to be running all the time although with a Facet it usually will be. You could maybe try rigging up something temporary to
supply fuel just in case. When I ran mine up for the first time I used an old 1ltr oil can upside down with a piece of fuel hose on the extendable
spout. As long as its above the carb level it then feeds fuel in under gravity.
Failing that, id check to see if youve got a spark on each plug etc. Also is there any immobiliser type circuit in the R1 loom (or any clutch /
sidestand cut-offs) that could be causing the issue?
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kingr
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| posted on 8/4/04 at 07:08 PM |
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Well, I read all your suggestions - I certainly haven't touched the cams, so I didn't think it was that, but I recalled that while the
socket to the coils is keyed, the actual spade connectors on the coils aren't, so I tried switching them round - nothing at all, checked
polarity, switched polarity round, still nothing, switched them back and it was back to one bang, switched polarity on coils, still only one bang (I
was getting kind of desperate by this point), still only one bang, so then I did what I should have done much earlier and pulled one of the plug leads
and popped a spare plug in it - one spark, then nothing  ?! Checked all the others, they were the same. So, the gray cells start slowly moving and
I'm thinking either dead coils (although for both to be equally dead seemed a bit weird) or that there wasn't enough juice coming from my
tribute to Heath Robinson style jump leads from the battery on my normal car. The question of an anti theft device had crossed my mind, but I thought
that I'd ruled out that while examining the loom and marking it up. Anyway, I had a quick look at the connectors for the cycle-lock (I'd
assumed, stupidly, that the loom was standard and the connectors were included regardless of whether it was fitted) and noticed that two of the wires
had been cut (very strange) and upon closer examination the loom wrapping was rather ropey, so I stripped it and found four wires insulated and folded
back on themselves inside the loom.
Anyway, after a bit of fiddling around, I worked out what was doing what, turned the key and voof it fires and catches, big smiles !!
So, what am I to take from the modifications to the loom (I can't see there's any way the original bike would have worked with it in its
current state)? To me it looks like it's been nicked, but I've got a service history for the original bike which certainly looks pretty
genuine. Weird.
Anyway, thanks for all your help, it got me looking in the right direction.
Kingr
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 8/4/04 at 09:00 PM |
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Glad its fixed, electrical problems are sometimes a nightmare! 
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Jasalarms
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| posted on 18/4/04 at 05:03 PM |
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Chris, nearly spat my mouthful of tea over the computer monitor after reading your bit on the deafening backfire
How cool would that have been if somebody caught it on camera
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 18/4/04 at 05:20 PM |
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The most amusing aspect of it was that at the time I didnt have the ST exhaust for the car as I was still in the process of building, so we were using
the standard blade bike manifold but bolted on upside down so it comes up over top of the engine to clear the chassis rails - so the end of the
manifold was up above the carbs right next to where I was trying to get the thing started!
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Jasalarms
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| posted on 18/4/04 at 05:34 PM |
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Remember Remember the 5th of November
Should call you GUY
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