Johneturbo
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| posted on 3/8/10 at 01:13 PM |
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Engine change R1 to ZZR14
Just been toying with the idea of an engine change
even though my R1 performs great would like a bit more
viable? or not worth the hassle? as i'd need new engine/chassis mounts and cradle to start with
i know someone that has a ZZR14 and all it's had is sump baffle and runs fine in his dax
would the probshaft also need to be changed you think plus manifold/exhaust
but then i could sell mine as a complete kit ie engine, stripped out loom, clocks manifold/exhaust would be worth a bit
what you guys/gals think
[Edited on 3/8/10 by Johneturbo]
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smart51
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| posted on 3/8/10 at 01:37 PM |
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stock 2004 R1 engines make 180 BHP and ZX14 engines make 190. Will you notice the difference? I'd guess the biggest influence on performance
would be the weight saving in your wallet. More seriously, if the ZX engine weighs more then road speed performance might be no better.
Last time I looked, ZX14 engines were a lot more expensive than the R1. I would spend the money making the car lighter. You need to lose about 30 kg
from a 575kg car (including driver) to equal the 10 BHP gain. Change rotating parts first. Then other unsprung parts then other parts.
Do you have super light weight alloys? Get some. Alloy hubs next, then lighter discs then lighter callipers. Its a lot less work, probably cheaper
and just as effective.
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 3/8/10 at 01:49 PM |
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Good points smart51
My car weighs 487kg with half tank fuel
just finding the R1 hassle to pull away fast to much clutch slip and i do a couple of friction plates not enuff revs it bogs down
and now i'm running a 3.62 lsd so should fly away from the lights
spoken to Andy from AB real nice guy, he did say to try some things ie longer arm on the clutch lever engine side to get more travel, engine low down
doesn't seem to perform well, but on track once rolling it goes well.
might have to get it on the rolling road just to see what it's doing
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dilley
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| posted on 3/8/10 at 01:55 PM |
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I would have a look at the torque figures...
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 3/8/10 at 02:07 PM |
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Well Andy did ask if the engine was standard and AFAIK it is
bought from Malc at yorkshire engines
but noticed a name scribbed on the engine, dodd steng which i mentioned and turns out Andy use to race against him in sidecars so wonder if the engine
is cam's up
learn something everyday!
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smart51
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| posted on 3/8/10 at 02:23 PM |
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I had the clutch cable attached to the clutch pedal as close to the pedal pivot as I could get it. This gave me more pedal travel so I could feel
the biting point of the clutch more. It aided pulling away no end. If you want more clutch control, you can set it up like this. You then have a
choice of engine speeds between the 14,000 RPM and 140 RPM that a knife edge clutch limits you to.
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progers
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| posted on 3/8/10 at 02:23 PM |
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Malc also supplied an ex grasstrack engine to a friend of mine describing it as a low mileage unit, 5 years younger than it actually was......
He did actually take it back, but it does make you wonder....
- Paul
[Edited on 3/8/10 by progers]
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 3/8/10 at 02:34 PM |
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Hmmm i think a rolling road is needed just to check a few things
maybe a good map will sort it out
to be fair i've done two trackdays and it's been faultless
just strange with the low down power/torque
i have got the cable almost touching the pivot on the pedal which has helped with feel
ETA i can pull away without throttle( just tick over) if i'm gentle with the clutch, but if i introduce throttle it will bog down
[Edited on 3/8/10 by Johneturbo]
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progers
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| posted on 3/8/10 at 02:58 PM |
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Sounds like a fuelling issue that should be sorted by a visit to the rolling road. You should expect 140-145 rwhp if its a standard engine, if its any
more its likely to have been tweaked :-)
You will find that a ZZr14 will be a lot more torquey and will allow you to be a bit more lazy with the gears. Its also a good 20hp up on the R1
(don't believe the 180bhp claims, its wildly optimistic) so you would find it a noticeable difference. I can certainly feel the extra grunt of
the ZX12r I now run Vs my 03 R1. Whether its worth the extra dosh is another matter though, your car should be pretty quick as is.
The later R1's are actually less powerful below 8-9k rpm than the pre 04 engines so tend to feel a bit gutless until they come on cam. They
certainly fly once the revs are up though.
Cheers
Paul
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adithorp
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| posted on 3/8/10 at 03:40 PM |
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Mine is overgeared of the line but pulls smooth enough. It was mapped and made 171 at the flywheel on a conservative RR. Yamahas 180 includes 10bhp
for ram air and probably another 10 added just for effect, leaving 160. Get rid of the exup and restrictive exhaust and get it mapped (we gained 7
doing that) and you get back to 170ish?
Biggest improvement with the RR was getting rid of the 4-5000rpm flat spot and flatening the top of the power curve. It's now linear to 10500
then flat with virtually max power all the way to 13000. makes it miles better to drive.
adrian
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 3/8/10 at 03:59 PM |
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No Exup valve just a 4-1 exhaust and piper sausage filter
i've emailed pdq as they are only down the road (10mins away) so might get it checked out see where i'm at
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scootz
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| posted on 3/8/10 at 04:41 PM |
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Worth considering the extra torque the Big Zed offers... 30ft/lbs!!! 
It's Evolution Baby!
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skippad
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| posted on 3/8/10 at 07:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
Just been toying with the idea of an engine change
even though my R1 performs great would like a bit more
viable? or not worth the hassle? as i'd need new engine/chassis mounts and cradle to start with
i know someone that has a ZZR14 and all it's had is sump baffle and runs fine in his dax
would the probshaft also need to be changed you think plus manifold/exhaust
but then i could sell mine as a complete kit ie engine, stripped out loom, clocks manifold/exhaust would be worth a bit
what you guys/gals think
[Edited on 3/8/10 by Johneturbo]
Why dont you drive your mates Dax and make your own mind up.
Most opinions on here are just that, opinions, just guesswork.
The zzr14 has a lot more power and a lot more torque than an R1.
Until youve been in one you cant compere the two.
I have.
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 4/8/10 at 12:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by skippad
quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
Just been toying with the idea of an engine change
even though my R1 performs great would like a bit more
viable? or not worth the hassle? as i'd need new engine/chassis mounts and cradle to start with
i know someone that has a ZZR14 and all it's had is sump baffle and runs fine in his dax
would the probshaft also need to be changed you think plus manifold/exhaust
but then i could sell mine as a complete kit ie engine, stripped out loom, clocks manifold/exhaust would be worth a bit
what you guys/gals think
[Edited on 3/8/10 by Johneturbo]
Why dont you drive your mates Dax and make your own mind up.
Most opinions on here are just that, opinions, just guesswork.
The zzr14 has a lot more power and a lot more torque than an R1.
Until youve been in one you cant compere the two.
I have.
yes i agree, maybe if i ask nicely he will let me have a drive!
i think it will come down to costs with the chassis being modified for the mounts
ETA- what fuel pump do you use? i have a bosh vauxhaul injection one
[Edited on 4/8/10 by Johneturbo]
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