Johneturbo
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| posted on 18/12/10 at 05:07 PM |
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Making your own exhaust BEC manifold
my next BIG job is the manifold, now my R1 manifold seems to small a bore compared to the standard ZZR14 i have, plus it would need cutting and
shutting to fit.
has anyone made one up from the standard bike manifold? they don't seem to be equel lengths, but they have link pipes between them
i'm guessing they are stainless rather than Ti
so how easy/difficult will it be!!
ps i can't weld that well and don't have a tig welder
 
Description
[Edited on 18/12/10 by Johneturbo]
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bitsilly
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| posted on 18/12/10 at 05:25 PM |
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I can't weld so well but have a big grinder which helps! Just make sure it is sealded!
With my Cobra I had to cut and weld quite a few sections to fit the power steering. A mig welder will weld the stainless no problem. It isn't
that pretty but my plan was always to wrap the exhausts anyway.
Merlin (among others) sell different lengths and curves etc designed for you to build up your own design. I actually stuck with the bits I cut from
the original manifold and patched it in places (with mild steel!!).
I have so far had a carbed R1 and now an injected 5VY and on both the link pipes had been ditched, so I wouldn't worry about them too much. They
are for some resonance thing IIRC and serve little or no purpose in a car (at least in a 6.3litre Cobra, am sure someone will correct me about bike
engines).
Anyway, a year plus down the line and an SVA exam, the exhausts still aren't blowing!
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 18/12/10 at 05:39 PM |
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Nice to know someone else is also better with a angry grinder than a welder! 
did you also make up a collector or maybe something i can buy of the shelf, i already have a "hole" on the bodywork so need to make it
kinda fit that, i don't mind making it a bit bigger to fit thou
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Strontium Dog
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| posted on 18/12/10 at 06:13 PM |
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It'll be difficult to grind the weld out of the inside of the pipe with an angle grinder and that's where it counts! You could tack it and
then get someone who can weld to do the seams or you'll need a die grinder and flexi shaft or similar Collectors are easy enough to form but
again you will need to be proficient at welding to make the best of it. Google making collectors, it is well covered on the interweb!
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bitsilly
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| posted on 18/12/10 at 06:35 PM |
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On a Cobra I had shiney side pipes which I bought separately. All I needed to do was get four positioned pipes on each side and use a lot of jiggery
pokery to get them to slide into the shiney bits.
I would say forget the existing hole and with cardboard, cut a top and a bottom piece which together make a nice rectangle/square/circle, and then cut
them out of Ali and rivet it on, to fit around the exiting pipes, and cover the old hole. This also helps reduce induction noise for track day noise
tests.
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 18/12/10 at 06:40 PM |
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Doing a bit of searching came up with this website, a wee little programe that lets you make the bits with a paper template, i think it's been
posted before on here
http://www.pulserate.com/index.php?content=product
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SPYDER
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| posted on 18/12/10 at 08:02 PM |
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We made our own manifold from two standard ones. We cut them up into bends and straights and it's just a 3D puzzle from there on in. Plus, being
a 929 'blade it was titanium. The collector wasn't easy but the end result was worth all the effort.
Not being able to TIG won't make the job easy but as already said you could tack it together and get it Tigged professionally.
Speak to your Tig man first.
Pics in my archive.
Geoff
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 18/12/10 at 09:58 PM |
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Geoff,
Whats the problem with MIGing manifolds?
Not as pretty, or something worse?
Matt
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SPYDER
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| posted on 19/12/10 at 12:01 AM |
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Not as pretty I suppose Matt.
I tend to leave all things weld-wise to my co-builder.
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 19/12/10 at 07:37 PM |
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Well your work (or your partners) is lovely there is no doubt.
I just don't have the skills or the kit to do it as nicely as you do.
Just wanted to clarify that MIGed manifolds work fine, which I think you have,
Thanks,
Matt
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Steve Hignett
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| posted on 19/12/10 at 07:41 PM |
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But Geoff and Eldon's manifold was titanium hence wanting/needing it to be Tig'ed...
ETA - to the OP, johneturbo, send a u2u to Joe welderman, he has made a couple of collectors and they are very good...
[Edited on 19/12/10 by Steve Hignett]
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Chet
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| posted on 20/12/10 at 04:07 AM |
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FYI-
Suggest spending the funds or time to build a properly designed tri-y system. The addition to the mid range power band can really make a difference.
Another alternative would be to use a stepped 4 / 1 with a merge collector.
Chet
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 20/12/10 at 06:38 PM |
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Where do you start with designing a system, do you use cardboard to get a idea of the shape needed
i think once i cut up the manifold i will be a bit short on material, apart from merlin any other place i can get bends/straights
OK steve i'll keep joe welderman in mind
[Edited on 20/12/10 by Johneturbo]
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 10/1/11 at 06:16 PM |
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Right guys been working out angles for the manifold i'm making.
and i can only go with with the angles i have from the bike manifold i cut up
say i have a angle as in the pic and wanted to lessen the angle is there a way of making sure it's the same size ID/OD
as i'm butting up the joints
 
Description
i need some 60Deg angles, it's not something i've found anywhere off the shelf from the inteweb
any techniques you can share
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Angel Acevedo
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| posted on 11/1/11 at 06:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
Right guys been working out angles for the manifold i'm making.
and i can only go with with the angles i have from the bike manifold i cut up
say i have a angle as in the pic and wanted to lessen the angle is there a way of making sure it's the same size ID/OD
as i'm butting up the joints
Description
i need some 60Deg angles, it's not something i've found anywhere off the shelf from the inteweb
any techniques you can share
Make sure you measure twice...
The cut MUST be perpendicular to a tangent where you want the cut.
In your picture is not, this will lead to an oval opening.
I hope I make sense...
Beware of what you wish.. for it may come true....
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tony-devon
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| posted on 11/1/11 at 08:39 AM |
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OJZ ENGINEERING is your friend 
http://www.ojzengineering.co.uk/product_index.php
any custom bends required are priced the same as a 180 degree bend in that tube, plus 10%
but for stainless bends, their prices really are very hard to beat
I ordered some last thursday, and should be here today, great service, helpful and friendly
Im nothing to do with them, but having found these people after spending probably in the region of £700 in the last few years with demons tweeks etc,
I am over the moon and feel that they need to be promoted
heavy is good, heavy is reliable, and if it breaks, hit them with it
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oddsaabs
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| posted on 11/1/11 at 05:22 PM |
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I spent some time looking at the zx14 header this morning as I'm not that far behind you in needing to design a new one. Your right that the
primaries are different lengths. I measured lengths between 20" and 22". The varied lengths are probably the reason for the cross tubes.
I doubt that 4 equal length primaries would need these. I'd measure all 4 carefully then find the average. Make this the length of all your
primaries. Probably around 21".
The stock header, as well as every aftermarket header I can find, all use a 4-2-1 system. Cylinders 4 & 1 join together, 2 & 3 make the other
pair. I would say this is clearly the way to go forward.
As far as actually designing the header I've had success in the past with using bendable plastic tubing of the same diameter (1.5" in this
case) to get a general idea how to lay them out, then use welding rod to create a more stable shape to build from. This is the technique used by
Keith Tanner in his book. I've found it works pretty well.
Do make sure that any cuts made on the tubing are square to the tube. Score some pre-bent tubing in 180 shapes and use tape to measure how much of
each bend is required at each joint. You'll find that one tube can supply multiple bends in the primaries if measured carefully.
Without a welder on hand it's going to be hard to make this. I usually tack together the pieces first in the shapes I need then give it to a
friend who is a much better welder that I am to do the finish welding. Best of both worlds. I do the time consuming job of creating the puzzle and
save the skilled work for my mate.
Hope that helps. There is actually quite a bit of info out there about making headers for Locosts on the LocostUSA site. Might me worth a gander.
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 13/1/11 at 06:20 PM |
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Tony your right they are good prices plus being able to order any angle for not much more is a bonus
i ordered a couple of 60Deg and 1/2 mtr straight, (hopefuly be here monday) thats all i need extra for the manifold. unless i mess it up... Gulp
Not sure what i'm doing with a collector yet (think that will be beyond my skill level) 4-2-1 would be ideal but maybe for simplicity i'll
try and get a 4-1 made up
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 13/1/11 at 06:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Angel Acevedo
quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
Right guys been working out angles for the manifold i'm making.
and i can only go with with the angles i have from the bike manifold i cut up
say i have a angle as in the pic and wanted to lessen the angle is there a way of making sure it's the same size ID/OD
as i'm butting up the joints
Description
i need some 60Deg angles, it's not something i've found anywhere off the shelf from the inteweb
any techniques you can share
Make sure you measure twice...
The cut MUST be perpendicular to a tangent where you want the cut.
In your picture is not, this will lead to an oval opening.
I hope I make sense...
How do you make sure it's perpendicular to the tangent? just by eye or is there a formulae
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 20/1/11 at 05:51 PM |
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I'm making slow progress on my manifold but it's progress nevertheless!
been looking at options for a collector that won't break the bank.
come across these on ebay from the usa nice 4-2-1 with the right size for my manifold i'd just need to get the ends swaged to accept the 38mm
OD
what ya think?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Collector-Collectors-Pipe-Header-Exhaust-304-Stainless-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem255faafad1QQitemZ160518830801QQptZMo
torsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
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Uphill Racer
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 12:24 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
I'm making slow progress on my manifold but it's progress nevertheless!
been looking at options for a collector that won't break the bank.
come across these on ebay from the usa nice 4-2-1 with the right size for my manifold i'd just need to get the ends swaged to accept the 38mm
OD
what ya think?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Collector-Collectors-Pipe-Header-Exhaust-304-Stainless-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem255faafad1QQitemZ160518830801QQptZMo
torsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Depends if they are the desired length. I altered the standard ZZR pipes to suite my purpose.
Necessary to clear mounting points.
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B120WNY
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 12:34 PM |
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Here's my exhaust in my Mac#1
Take one standard CBR1000RR exhaust manifold
Cut and bolted to the engine
The rest of the bits cut and layed out
On the engine
All the parts from the standard manifold reused to get to this point
Silencer and link pipe welded up
Fitted
Wrapped in Thermo Tec heat wrap
The wrap is now sealed/painted with DEI high temp silicone coating, awaiting the final fitting to the car.
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 07:05 PM |
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Nice job great that you've used all of the bikes manifold/collector
i can't use the bike collector as it's a 4-1 the 1 houses the cat then back into 2 with 2 1/2" outlets
here's my progress so far
 
Description
 
Description
 
Description
just tacked in place so far, have 2 to 3 joints per pipe so not so bad, i will try and get it tig welded somewhere local
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