Autoflock Motorsport
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 09:04 AM |
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GSXR1000 K4 Supercharger Kit, Anyone interested?
I am currently designing a supercharger kit for the GSXR K4 1000 engine, this will be for car fitment so unlike most kits on the market I will be
including a means of cooling the charge temperature which will probably be via a small intercooler. Im doing this to my car to get a bit more torque
out of the engine, im just wondering if anybody else would be interested in this sort of kit?
Comments and advice welcome please :-)
thanks very much
Kind regards
Raj
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=183445
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twybrow
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 11:27 AM |
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Does it have to be specific to that engine? I guess the majority of the components could be the same regardless of which bike engine is used, but
there would be bespoke bits such as the mounting brackets, and fueling solution.
I would be very interested to consider your solution on a ZX12 if that could work...
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Autoflock Motorsport
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 11:36 AM |
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The supercharger will be the same obviously and the IC (if thats the route I go) then the other bits will be all unique, but very similar design o it
will just be a case of tweeking a few dimensions on the drawings to suit.
Ive sourced another K4 1000 engine to start the mock up, the fueling side of things will all depend on your setup ie what injectors your using,
management and pump setup.
As mine if for a race/track car I can get away with just using the primative power commander, but if it was for a car used on the road I would
recomend getting aftermarket ecu so you can refine various maps to mate with the extra air such as various throttle positions, cruise etc. My car is
either on or off so the powercommander can just be tweeked accordingly
I am really suprised not more people are offering a supercharger kit for these engines, spent a fair while trawling the net in search of info and
there is no where near as much as I was expecting. If my setup works then hopefully I can help a few others out if needed with their design.
It really is very simple in theory.
Putting it into practice will be the challenging part lol
Kind regards
Raj
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=183445
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marco
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 12:13 PM |
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I'm interested to see how this progresses as I was contemplating the turbo route. I'm currently running a K2 GSXR 1000 and I have a spare
engine too. As always cost will play a factor, this is my issue with all the turbo kits.
There's plenty of low cost small superchargers around it all depends on the machining costs for pulleys etc. I know a very good machine shop who
are happy to prototype if there is a market for parts and I can handle the cad work required in Solidworks if you need any help?
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JoelP
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 12:33 PM |
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I'd be interested in details of what it might cost and how many horses might be added. I'm thinking of going bec over winter.
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jeffw
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 12:38 PM |
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TTS do a kit
http://www.tts-performance.co.uk/#!suzuki-gsxr1000-k1-4/cpbu
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marco
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 12:46 PM |
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3.7k,  not very Locost. Considering the average market value of an Mk, MNR, etc etc this is my point, that's quite a portion.
Given the combined knowledge, skills and making capacity of the members on this forum surely we should be able to make up kits such as these for much
less and for more than one particular engine.
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
TTS do a kit
http://www.tts-performance.co.uk/#!suzuki-gsxr1000-k1-4/cpbu
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jeffw
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 01:35 PM |
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I think you underestimate the cost of producing a supercharger kit for a BEC. Good luck ....
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Autoflock Motorsport
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 01:45 PM |
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thanks for your replies everyone its most appreciated and im excisted to see other intereted. Here is a bit of background to what and why im doing
this.
I car simply needs a bit more torque so I have 3 options, buy a bigger capacity engine ie busa. Problem is they are very expensive to buy.
Option 2 is go turbo, I spoke to both big cc and Holeshot (jack) regarding this. For my application on track its just not practical, couple this with
the 10k price and also the fact if something goes wrong its pretty much a ground up rebuild (low comp pistons/machining etc)
Option 3 a genuine bolt on supercharger kit.
This for me is the best option as I want a kit that I MYSELF can easily maintain, the power delivery of the supercharger is a hell of a lot mroe
progressive than a turbo, sure you arnt able to extract any where near as many ponies from the engine but thats not at all what im after, I want the
engine to stay stock.
So in essense once the bolt on kit is installed should the worst happen and the engine let go i simply just buy another K4 1000 engine for around 700
- 1000 although cheaper ones do crop up. Then just bolt the charger back on and away I go. No drama, just a quick once over on the rollers and thats
it.
To me this seems like a much better option than having to weigh out 1500 plus for a busa of have the engine sent away each time for a rebuild.
I have spoke to TTS and the price was over 4k for the "Bolt on " kit. As I am in the motorsport trade within my circle of friends I can
sort all the pipework, plenum and cooling side of the kit, I asked tts how much for them to sell me a kit which would just provide boost i.e. the
charger and drive from the engine. Their responce was 3100 plus vat hence im doing my own.
Figure wise on a k4 the torque should see over 100 ft lb and the bhp will be over 200. These figures are claimed from tts kit which afaik is a direct
from charger to inlet plenum design. Mine will include an intercooler to bring the temps down even further, its free power so as I have the space i
think its worth while.
Aiming for around 6 - 8 psi depending how the engine responds and the temps, I dont want to melt anything, this will all be mapped/configured and set
up my a good friend rick who runs unicorn motorsport developments, one of the best engine mappers around.
The supercharger will be a 15 - 60 rotrex which ive managed to find for around 1100 from america, I will be very suprised if I can do this conversion
for sub 2000 on my engine but time will tell.
At the moment im try to sort a few spreadsheets out to help design various pulley sizes to work with the power graph of my engine and the efficiancy
flow graph of the supercharger. Steep learning curve for me at the mo
Hope this makes sense :-)
Kind regards
Raj
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=183445
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marco
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 01:46 PM |
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There's cost and mark up Jeff, as you know  I don't expect it to be hundreds no, but then again not over 3k. If the thread starter is
doing it to earn his living then that's different yes...
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
I think you underestimate the cost of producing a supercharger kit for a BEC. Good luck ....
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Autoflock Motorsport
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 01:52 PM |
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the plenum i am designing will be generic, the top collector chamber will be made from carbon fibre which I will test and post results on here so
everyone can see if it works or not, and the bottom part which will attach to the throttle bodies will be made from cnc milled ally. I shall design
the plenum chamber slightly larger so that only the ally base plate will change from model to model (if the kit works and anyone wants one)
This is all a bit of development fun on my side of things so I hope people dont take me too seriously, but if it work it may be a nice little mod for
any nike engine.
If people have any comments or advice it would be most appreciated as everyones input would help make a much better kit
Kind regards
Raj
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=183445
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marco
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 01:53 PM |
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I can see this ending up at the same price as buying a kit to be honest.
Why buy a new charger and a rotrex? I don't know a great deal about chargers but there are plenty of used small car engine chargers for much
less..
Alloy Intake plenum's from Nissan Pulsar GTir's I believe are easy to modify and fit...
quote:
Originally posted by Autoflock Motorsport
thanks for your replies everyone its most appreciated and im excisted to see other intereted. Here is a bit of background to what and why im doing
this.
I car simply needs a bit more torque so I have 3 options, buy a bigger capacity engine ie busa. Problem is they are very expensive to buy.
Option 2 is go turbo, I spoke to both big cc and Holeshot (jack) regarding this. For my application on track its just not practical, couple this with
the 10k price and also the fact if something goes wrong its pretty much a ground up rebuild (low comp pistons/machining etc)
Option 3 a genuine bolt on supercharger kit.
This for me is the best option as I want a kit that I MYSELF can easily maintain, the power delivery of the supercharger is a hell of a lot mroe
progressive than a turbo, sure you arnt able to extract any where near as many ponies from the engine but thats not at all what im after, I want the
engine to stay stock.
So in essense once the bolt on kit is installed should the worst happen and the engine let go i simply just buy another K4 1000 engine for around 700
- 1000 although cheaper ones do crop up. Then just bolt the charger back on and away I go. No drama, just a quick once over on the rollers and thats
it.
To me this seems like a much better option than having to weigh out 1500 plus for a busa of have the engine sent away each time for a rebuild.
I have spoke to TTS and the price was over 4k for the "Bolt on " kit. As I am in the motorsport trade within my circle of friends I can
sort all the pipework, plenum and cooling side of the kit, I asked tts how much for them to sell me a kit which would just provide boost i.e. the
charger and drive from the engine. Their responce was 3100 plus vat hence im doing my own.
Figure wise on a k4 the torque should see over 100 ft lb and the bhp will be over 200. These figures are claimed from tts kit which afaik is a direct
from charger to inlet plenum design. Mine will include an intercooler to bring the temps down even further, its free power so as I have the space i
think its worth while.
Aiming for around 6 - 8 psi depending how the engine responds and the temps, I dont want to melt anything, this will all be mapped/configured and set
up my a good friend rick who runs unicorn motorsport developments, one of the best engine mappers around.
The supercharger will be a 15 - 60 rotrex which ive managed to find for around 1100 from america, I will be very suprised if I can do this conversion
for sub 2000 on my engine but time will tell.
At the moment im try to sort a few spreadsheets out to help design various pulley sizes to work with the power graph of my engine and the efficiancy
flow graph of the supercharger. Steep learning curve for me at the mo
Hope this makes sense :-)
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jeffw
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 02:03 PM |
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The Rotrex is really the only supercharger suitable for bike engines as far as I'm aware.
TTS are UK distributors for Rotrex and have been doing Bike and Car engines for some considerable time. If this is going to cost £3K anyway I'd
seriously have a discussion with TTS if you are in the market.
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Autoflock Motorsport
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 02:07 PM |
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here is a rough idea of what the kit for my car consists of:
rotrex charger £1100
crank pulley £50
Belt £??
revised crank housing/charger mount (cnc ally) £150
fiesta/escort rst intercooler £20
either composite or ally/ss inlet plenum £350 (for welded metal one)
CNC plenum base plate £100
Silicone hoses for ease of fitment although you could hard pipe if you wanted but for the amount of pressure I wouldnt of thought it neccesary £?
injectors if required£?
boostcontroller £150
Thats a rough estimate and the machining costs are cheap as my sunday drinking partner runs vtec cnc soloutions, we are always doing each other
favours so he will do a one off for my build......i hope
so rough total is £1920 plus the bits I cant put a price against.
Like I say this is all a bit of fun and will start a thread on the progress on it, there are a lot of bits im putting on my car which other people may
already have or not wish to have, hopefully it will give people the motivation to have a go themselves as long as mine works. it may all go horribly
wrong, melt the engine, set on fire and roll down the road into someone elses house who just happens to be a copper who has had a really bad day.
Kind regards
Raj
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=183445
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Autoflock Motorsport
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 02:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
I think you underestimate the cost of producing a supercharger kit for a BEC. Good luck ....
Jeff I assume your car is already supercharged, can you elaborate on your comments constructivly please? did you have any problems with your
installation or obsticals which caused any issues?
as you may have already been through them it would be a massive help if you would share your thoughts/constrructive comments.
p.s. yes I NEED A LOT OF LUCK...........and help lol
Kind regards
Raj
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=183445
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marco
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 02:13 PM |
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Interesting
thread about just this here
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Autoflock Motorsport
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 02:51 PM |
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thank you very much marco, great thread, answers my theory about power delivery too, you get more power with a turbo but its not what I need for a
track car, i need to power to be progressive, also big cc are experimenting with the boost control idea so i must be on the right track :-)
Kind regards
Raj
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=183445
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jeffw
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 03:21 PM |
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I'm more than happy to be constuctive, certainly I've always tried to be on here. Yes, mine is supercharged (Zetec with a Rotrex,
400BHP/280 ft lb).
I've been through a large number of itterations and, in retrospect, I'd have cut at least 30% of the cost if I'd simple gone to TTS
and handed the car and money over. I am in the 'Do it once, do it right' camp now. I wish you luck with your project but I doubt if you
could replicate the kit in any numbers at the same costs you are quoting.
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sam919
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 03:33 PM |
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Good project, I done a bit of research into this but with the free revving characteristics of à bike engine I'm going down the turbo route, you
really don't get any lag.
On the SC side of things their are a few companies about, here and abroad. Big Cc do a kit which has good results with BEC
http://www.bigccracing.com/shop/category.asp?idCategory=138
If you google snowmobile sc their has been a lot of work done in this area that might be of interest, your at the mercy of the sales teams so proven
technology is your best bet, there's more fiddling been done with jetskis and snow machines than BEC as well and plenty of discussions to bring
other ideas in sc smaller engines to the table
Looking forward to see your results, good effort
Edited : just saw the above ref to big cc in your prev post.
[Edited on 2/9/14 by sam919]
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Autoflock Motorsport
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 03:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
I'm more than happy to be constuctive, certainly I've always tried to be on here. Yes, mine is supercharged (Zetec with a Rotrex,
400BHP/280 ft lb).
I've been through a large number of itterations and, in retrospect, I'd have cut at least 30% of the cost if I'd simple gone to TTS
and handed the car and money over. I am in the 'Do it once, do it right' camp now. I wish you luck with your project but I doubt if you
could replicate the kit in any numbers at the same costs you are quoting.
totally agree,
its more of a case of just fancying having a go myself so to speak, the prices ive quoted are projected mates rates etc. I would go the tts route but
there are just a few things im not too keen on with the kit, and the price for just the drive side was a bit too high.
I would appreciate if you can keep an eye on my posts/threads as and when I start the progress blog as your input would be most appreciated, its all a
bit of fun and I will be as open as poss regarding what things are costing me.
Kind regards
Raj
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=183445
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jeffw
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 05:36 PM |
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Good luck and have fun with your project.
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Autoflock Motorsport
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| posted on 2/9/14 at 09:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sam919
Good project, I done a bit of research into this but with the free revving characteristics of à bike engine I'm going down the turbo route, you
really don't get any lag.
On the SC side of things their are a few companies about, here and abroad. Big Cc do a kit which has good results with BEC
http://www.bigccracing.com/shop/category.asp?idCategory=138
If you google snowmobile sc their has been a lot of work done in this area that might be of interest, your at the mercy of the sales teams so proven
technology is your best bet, there's more fiddling been done with jetskis and snow machines than BEC as well and plenty of discussions to bring
other ideas in sc smaller engines to the table
Looking forward to see your results, good effort
Edited : just saw the above ref to big cc in your prev post.
[Edited on 2/9/14 by sam919]
I did speak to bigcc last year, but I don't think they took me seriously as they mentioned how expensive it is to boost these engines quite a
few times, put me off a tad as I had just decided to pull the plug on a 10k fiesta project which meant I had some free'd up budget for improving
the track car.
May be work me giving them another call to see what their opinions are on their charger v rotrex and other models
Kind regards
Raj
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=183445
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