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Author: Subject: Blackbird engined Hillman Imp
colimp66

posted on 6/10/15 at 09:27 AM Reply With Quote
Blackbird engined Hillman Imp

New to the forum but have been an avid lurker reading several posts on bike engined cars.
I am planning on fitting a Blackbird engine to my 1970 Hillman Imp to rpleace the original engine but keep it in the same position as the Imp engine driving through a MX-5 diff that wil be turned and used upside down to keep the drive going in the correct direction.

I have posted a question in the transmission section to see if this is a good idea or are there better diffs to be used in this way.

A photo of the car as how it is at the moment,more to follow.



Cheers
Col.

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INDY BIRD

posted on 6/10/15 at 11:05 AM Reply With Quote
sorry can t help on the diff,

But the engine choice any reason for the bird engine? probably ok for road use, but if near a track be on the look out for oil surge etc, plenty of posts on here if you search for it,

best of luck with the project,

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colimp66

posted on 6/10/15 at 11:10 AM Reply With Quote
No bother.

The reason for the Blackbird motor is nothing other than it was available with all the ancillaries for a good price.
I have read of the oil surge problems and the thoughts of dry sumping/baffling the sump etc which is a bit of a concern. The Imp will be mostly used on the road as a weekend toy.

Cheers
Col.

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wylliezx9r

posted on 6/10/15 at 11:13 AM Reply With Quote
I would question your engine choice. From what I've read Blackbird engines do not fair very well in car installations something to do with the crankcase and head twisting which results in con rods flying through the casing.
There are plenty of other engines of similar spec: Fireblades, Zx10r, Zx9r etc etc.

[Edited on 6/10/15 by wylliezx9r]





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INDY BIRD

posted on 6/10/15 at 11:13 AM Reply With Quote
should be ok for road use, they are a good powerful engine, for the money,

A good baffle plate and poss acusump for road use, should be ok,mine was fine on the road, and made 130 bhp at the wheels

best of luck with it,

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sam919

posted on 7/10/15 at 09:58 PM Reply With Quote
Ok, so the diff will just be rotated over itself from pointing forward in the MX5 site, to facing backwards? not sure how the upside down bit will reverse the drive rotation as the CWP only goes one way.
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imp paul

posted on 8/10/15 at 08:06 AM Reply With Quote
Hello guys long time since I have posted on here. I hope your all well & and welcome colimp I think your going to like it on here there are some fantastic people


[Edited on 8/10/15 by imp paul]

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40inches

posted on 8/10/15 at 11:38 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sam919
Ok, so the diff will just be rotated over itself from pointing forward in the MX5 site, to facing backwards? not sure how the upside down bit will reverse the drive rotation as the CWP only goes one way.


The CP isn't in the centre of the diff, its to one side of the pinion, so flipping it will reverse the direction of the drive shaft.
The Porche transaxle is used on GT40's, but has to be flipped.
Try it with a round beer mat.

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sam919

posted on 8/10/15 at 01:51 PM Reply With Quote
I see, your right.

I had a look at your pics imp Paul and see youve done the same with a 7".

It all figures in a moment of clarity :-)

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imp paul

posted on 8/10/15 at 07:56 PM Reply With Quote
OK so back to fitting a bike engine in a imp .be aware bike engines are tall not good as it wants to be inside rear parcel shelf ,and above also sump to floor clearance is very very tight .and then there's diff and motor clearance as the set up is long and goes in to the rear panel just a few problems lol

[Edited on 8/10/15 by imp paul]

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colimp66

posted on 8/10/15 at 08:54 PM Reply With Quote
Yeh, good points Paul.
Well aware of the height issue regarding the rear panel and know that will need trimming lol. Seen a good few Imps with the K series and Peugeot TU motors in them that suffer similar issues.
Not sure if a Yamaha FZR motor would be a better choice due to it being at 45 degree angle like an imp motor.

I have the Blackbird motor so will stick with that and work around the issues. A shallow sump will surely help the ground clearance I hope?

How is your build coming along? You still messing with Lambrettas as well?

I once put a Yamaha TZR250 engine in one many moons ago which was great fun for the 3 years i had it.

Cheers
Col

[Edited on 8/10/15 by colimp66]

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capri_big_jim

posted on 8/10/15 at 10:00 PM Reply With Quote
A friend of mine did a simile conversion using an R1 engine and Sierra diff. He made a cradle to mount the engine and diff in that bolted to the imp engine mounts.

Easier that way to remove if he had any problems.

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colimp66

posted on 8/10/15 at 10:20 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capri_big_jim
A friend of mine did a simile conversion using an R1 engine and Sierra diff. He made a cradle to mount the engine and diff in that bolted to the imp engine mounts.

Easier that way to remove if he had any problems.


I have a similar idea with the engine and diff cradle bolting to the Imp rear crossmember where the original gearbox mounts are and across the rear using the chassis legs so it can all be removed as one unit like you would with an Imp engine and gearbox. Minimum of 4 bolts holding it all in hopefully.

Cheers
Col.

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imp paul

posted on 10/10/15 at 10:13 PM Reply With Quote
engine 7may 07
engine 7may 07
here you go i removed my frame as i did not find it the way to go as sump is far to low

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Andybarbet

posted on 10/10/15 at 11:00 PM Reply With Quote
Strange question from me, how stable is the shell on those 2 engine stands ?

My 15 year old son is currently stripping a 1970 imp super & was trying to think of a good affordable way to work on the shell, that looks just the ticket.

Cheers





Give a man a fish & it will feed him for a day, give him a fishing rod & you've saved a fish.

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colimp66

posted on 11/10/15 at 08:27 AM Reply With Quote
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the photo of your engine in the cradle. The ground clearance is certainly a concern and something I am aware of but can't check until I get the car back on wheels with the suspension on. Can I assume a shorter sump may help?

Andy the bodyshell has been sitting on the engine stands for the last 6 years and has been turned so many times to repair the floor and everything else that was needed.
If I was using them again I would cut them so the pivots are at 90 degrees then tie both of the stands together with a bar inbetween them so they dont spread slightly. I did all the work myself and spun the car easily to to repair it.
If your on the Imp club forum you can check out the build there.

Cheers
Col

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imp paul

posted on 11/10/15 at 06:09 PM Reply With Quote
Hi Colin Im afraid to say it ,but I feel it will be dangerous with the sump . I also fitted a big low sump but still no good Colin ,massive risks that's why the engine is now midmount
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DIY Si

posted on 14/10/15 at 04:01 PM Reply With Quote
As the blackbird, and most bike engine, sumps are so shallow anyway, cutting it down would be asking to blow the engine up. Bike engines are already so tightly packaged that if it could be cut down Honda would do it too. Dry sumping might allow you to run a sump plate rather than a proper sump, if you see what I mean, but otherwise I'd leave it well alone.





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sam919

posted on 17/10/15 at 08:02 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by imp paul
OK so back to fitting a bike engine in a imp .be aware bike engines are tall not good as it wants to be inside rear parcel shelf ,and above also sump to floor clearance is very very tight .and then there's diff and motor clearance as the set up is long and goes in to the rear panel just a few problems lol

[Edited on 8/10/15 by imp paul]


Sorry for deviating......:-)

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f27

posted on 22/10/15 at 09:07 PM Reply With Quote
I would definitely stay away from the Blackbird engine. I went through 2 in two years and that was just fast road use. They like to throw rods





SOLD - F27 Blackbird, F27 ZZR1400, MK Indy Hayabusa, 3 750MC Crossflow Locosts, Ultima GTR - currently got a MX5 powered Locost racing car

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colimp66

posted on 29/3/16 at 10:17 PM Reply With Quote
Still with the Blackbird motor as that's what I have and progressed quite as bit with my Imp.
Got it down off the spit and on its wheels now with all the suspension fitted.


Once down on the floor I cut a hole in the rear parcel shelf and trial fitted the engine or slid it in onto of my skateboard lol.
Without any weight in the car it sits about 150mm from the floor to the bottom of the sump. I hope to improve that with the possibility of a different inlet for the carbs or as well as modifying the sump if required.


Cheers
Col

[Edited on 30/3/16 by colimp66]

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Andybarbet

posted on 29/3/16 at 10:59 PM Reply With Quote
That's looking good





Give a man a fish & it will feed him for a day, give him a fishing rod & you've saved a fish.

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hkp57

posted on 30/3/16 at 06:52 AM Reply With Quote
Good luck with the build, I too would be reluctant to use a Blackbird engine. Too many horror stories of blow ups even in road use due to oil surge.

You cant really go wrong with a fuel injected Fireblade or Yamaha R1 set up, plenty out there at relatively cheap money compared to the Hayabusa and ZZR14 and Zx12 options.

Have a chat with Andy at the Scottish Kit Car Center in East Lothian, he has just finished a R1 conversion in a rear engined Grasser with a nice self contained diff unit.

Lots of experience with Honda stuff also, including blown Blackbirds.





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colimp66

posted on 18/5/16 at 02:45 PM Reply With Quote
Luckily enough I have a connector that will be suitable for transferring the drive from the engine to the diff form a member of the forum. Cheers Alan



As well as receiving the connector I have started on making the frame up to hold the engine in the the Imp chassis which will then allow me to marry up the diff with the engine with having the connector, slow progress but I dip into it when time allows. The makings of a propshaft although very short is being devised in tandem with the rest of the work being done.

Cheers
Col.

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britishtrident

posted on 18/5/16 at 03:05 PM Reply With Quote
I can remember when bike racers put Imp engines in sidecar outfits.....................................

http://www.rjegraphics.com/ENG_MOD_no_graphics/Projects.htmlhttp://www.rjegraphics.com/ENG_MOD_no_graphics/Projects.html



[Edited on 18/5/16 by britishtrident]

[Edited on 18/5/16 by britishtrident]

[Edited on 18/5/16 by britishtrident]





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