number-1
|
| posted on 6/8/17 at 12:16 PM |
|
|
5vy faults....all 13 of them!!!!
Ive had the EML on the dash since the car broke down a few weeks back so, today i went into DIAG mode on the car and to my suprise i didnt just have 1
or 2 fault codes........but 13 of them 
Ive never seen so many codes before???
13
15
17
21
22
23
30
41
42
47
48
49
I need to find the list as to what each one means but id be mortified if there were 13 seperate issues? Im hoping they are all linked...possibly by
the same wiring!!! Im watching MOTOGP and BSB before i even consider going back to the garage.
Buy a kit car they said. It will be fun they said!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
minitici
|
| posted on 6/8/17 at 01:20 PM |
|
|
13 Intake air pressure sensor-open or short circuit detected.
15 Throttle position sensor-open or short circuit detected.
17 EXUP servo motor potentiometer circuit-open or short circuit detected.
21 Coolant temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected.
22 Intake temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected.
23 Atmospheric pressure sensor-open or short circuit detected.
30 The motorcycle has overturned.
41 Lean angle cut-off switch-open or short circuit detected.
42 No normal signals are received from the speed sensor; or, an open or short circuit is detected in the neutral switch.
47 Sub-throttle servo motor potentiometer circuit open or short circuit detected.
48 Sub-throttle servo motor is stuck.
49 nothing listed for fault code 49
|
|
|
number-1
|
| posted on 6/8/17 at 01:36 PM |
|
|
Cheers for that list mate!
Im going to presume (pray) that there is a wire that services all of them parts that has a short circuit.
Ive ruled out the following
17 EXUP servo motor potentiometer circuit-open or short circuit detected.......(Exup removed and eliminator installed so no motor)
30 The motorcycle has overturned......... (As below)
41 Lean angle cut-off switch-open or short circuit detected. ....... (Already tested and all is good, plus car wouldnt start if it was that)
Cheers
N1
|
|
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 6/8/17 at 03:09 PM |
|
|
42 speed sensor will trigger if you've been stationary for a while (5mins) Should go out as soon as it moves if that's all it is.
If you've got an exup eliminator circuit the fault code shouldn't trigger.
With that many codes I'd look for a common earth fault for starters.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
Slimy38
|
| posted on 6/8/17 at 06:26 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
With that many codes I'd look for a common earth fault for starters.
The first thing I'd do would be to clear them and see how many come back? Although that's for OBDII codes, does your DIAG device work the
same IE keep all codes in memory until they're cleared?
I've seen loads of people throw a wobbly because they've used an OBD device in a 'new to them' car, thinking they've
bought a lemon when in actual fact they're codes from many years ago that were fixed but not cleared.
|
|
|
number-1
|
| posted on 6/8/17 at 07:11 PM |
|
|
THeres no OBD port on the loom unforunately
There is a way to clear the codes from the ECU via the dash but it requires a std bike set up........ignition barrel that has 1st and second stage
igniton plus a kill switch.....My car has a battery isolater red key and a toggle switch on the dash and a start button and ive not been able to clear
them using the workshop manual technique.
The only thing i can find so far is
22 Intake temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected.
Ive tested the wires with a multimeter going to it and they are fine but when i test the sensor there is no reading. But im not sure if this would
throw the EML on?
Im not fussed about stored codes s long s i can find the fault causing the EML to be on
The car runs rough when its warmed up so maybe the fault is that sensor?
N1
|
|
|
gremlin1234
|
| posted on 6/8/17 at 07:46 PM |
|
|
quote:
There is a way to clear the codes from the ECU via the dash but it requires a std bike set up
might the fault codes clear if you
disconnected the battery overnight?
[Edited on 6/8/17 by gremlin1234]
|
|
|
number-1
|
| posted on 6/8/17 at 08:00 PM |
|
|
Ive tried that too with no luck. Ive even tried another ecu!!
|
|
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 6/8/17 at 08:55 PM |
|
|
Reset of the codes is either by switching on or starting and idling for most codes. A few need to idle for a time or need revving or driving. Then
they clear themselves if the fault if gone. They don't stay on until cleared from a memory. Every code I've had has gone as soon as I
fixed the problem and started up. Exact details are in section 7 of the Yam' manual.
In the end I suspect it all probably comes back to how the loom has been modified.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
Neville Jones
|
| posted on 7/8/17 at 10:20 AM |
|
|
Sounds like a single earth for the lot is missing, or the (5V?) power for them has gone.
|
|
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 7/8/17 at 12:28 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Sounds like a single earth for the lot is missing, or the (5V?) power for them has gone.
Agreed.
Worth noting most of the things those codes relate to are in the throttle body sub-harness so checking the sub-harmess to main loom plug might be a
good place to start.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
TimC
|
| posted on 7/8/17 at 12:41 PM |
|
|
I need to stop reading this post - it's making me flap (again) about my Frankenstein loom....
|
|
|
number-1
|
| posted on 7/8/17 at 09:01 PM |
|
|
Stupid question.....but when you say the 5V? power to them has gone.....what does this mean?
Electrics are like magic to me......
|
|
|
minitici
|
| posted on 8/8/17 at 03:29 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by number-1
Stupid question.....but when you say the 5V? power to them has gone.....what does this mean?
Electrics are like magic to me......
The ECU produces 5 volt signal power for various sensors.
|
|
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 8/8/17 at 04:15 PM |
|
|
Think we might have a winner.
There's a black wire with blue tracer from the ECU that supplies all the affected circuits. It's the only wire thats common to all the
sensors listed in your faults.
It also supplies the crank sensor (which isn't showing a fault) so check that is getting 5v and then follow the b/l wire to the affected
circuits and see if you can find a break. My guess would be the throttle body sub-harness connector as the crank sensor connects in before that but
all the other stuff is after it.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
number-1
|
| posted on 8/8/17 at 08:20 PM |
|
|
Adi, cheers for that mate.
I forgot to mention that car car has a USA loom as the builder didnt want a UK loom with immobiliser on it.
Ive checked the following
13 Intake air pressure sensor-open or short circuit detected. (need to test)
15 Throttle position sensor-open or short circuit detected. (need to test)
17 EXUP servo motor potentiometer circuit-open or short circuit detected........This is eliminated so happy its not that.
21 Coolant temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected. (need to test)
22 Intake temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected...........Happy this works after testing
23 Atmospheric pressure sensor-open or short circuit detected........Happy this works after testing
41 Lean angle cut-off switch-open or short circuit detected...........Tested this and it works
42 No normal signals are received from the speed sensor; or, an open or short circuit is detected in the neutral switch. (need to test)
47 Sub-throttle servo motor potentiometer circuit open or short circuit detected. (need to test)
48 Sub-throttle servo motor is stuck. (need to test)
49 nothing listed for fault code 49
Now, ive managed to partly trace the wire you mentioned Adi and it goes to the tip over sensor, Intake air temp sensor and also the starter circuit
cut off relay....
I mention this as on the odd occasion, the car hasnt turned off when ive hit the cut off on the dash and ive had to use the battery isolator to kill
the engine. Ive tested the switch and it appears correct however its only done it or 3 times out of 50 starts
Also, i had an episode of the starter relay blowing the 15 amp fuse whenever i turned the power on via the dash. I thought this was a bare wire that i
found but repaired it........however, today it did it again and blew the fuse?!?!?
Ive tried to test the starter circuit cut off relay as per the manual (fault code 43 in the book) but not managed any readings however when fitted the
car does start
I feel this may be a looooooooooong fault finding misison!!
|
|
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 8/8/17 at 09:21 PM |
|
|
On the wiring diagram the US loom/ECU is exactly the same as the euro one (all the wires for the immobiliser aren't shown in any diagram) and
from memory there was only one wire I couldn't ID in my US loom that I think was probably immobiliser related.
The problem you have is you don't know what was done to mod' the loom to fit the car. Some bits will have been extended, some alterations
to get around the start logic circuit (side stand, neutral, clutch switch, etc), some might have been removed (lighting circuits) removed some stuff
might have been spliced in. What switches do you have for ignition and start? Has the original ignition and kill switches been extended or have they
extended the wires and fitted different switches or has something completely different been rigged. It should never continue to run when switched of
and shouldn't blow fuses. You need to get your head around the wiring and get to the bottom of the issue.
This is a pretty good description of how it's usually done... Mainly because most of us have copied it.
http://www.robcollingridge.com/kitcar/design/engine/electrics.html
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
number-1
|
| posted on 11/8/17 at 08:21 PM |
|
|
Cheers for the link Adi
Today i spent 10 hours out with the car testing and stripping heatshrink/tape to expose wire looking for issues
The only thing i found wiring wise was a blue/black wire that was broken but still able to sometimes make contact with the severed end. This went into
the starter cut off relay. This is now repaired but the EML is still on but could be why the starter solenoid fuse blew?
13 Intake air pressure sensor-open or short circuit detected.........Happy this works after testing
15 Throttle position sensor-open or short circuit detected.....Happy this works after testing
17 EXUP servo motor potentiometer circuit-open or short circuit detected........This is eliminated so happy its not that.
21 Coolant temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected. (need to test)
22 Intake temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected...........Happy this works after testing
23 Atmospheric pressure sensor-open or short circuit detected........Happy this works after testing
41 Lean angle cut-off switch-open or short circuit detected...........Tested this and it works
42 No normal signals are received from the speed sensor; or, an open or short circuit is detected in the neutral switch. (need to test)
47 Sub-throttle servo motor potentiometer circuit open or short circuit detected. (need to test)
48 Sub-throttle servo motor is stuck. (need to test)
49 nothing listed for fault code 49
Its now showing Crank position sensor as a fault but ive unplugged it from the loom and the car won start. When i plug it back in it does so im happy
it works
Its all a bit of a ball ache to be honest lol
Is there a way of removing the ECU and clearing the codes? I cant clear them in situ as the wiring harness has been hacked/ammended and the kill
switch wiring isnt there anymore so cant do the delete as per the manual as i need the kill switch.
Cheers for any input and appologies for the griefy post
|
|
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 11/8/17 at 10:31 PM |
|
|
When you say... "Happy this works after testing" you mean you've tested the component? Just because a code say temp sensor
doesn't mean the fault is in the component. It can just as easily be in the wiring especially if the code is for open or short circuit. All the
faults you're showing are on the 5v fee from the ECU black wire with blue tracer. I still say you have a break, partial break or short to earth
somewhere on that circuit.
The codes clear themselves once the fault isn't present... when you cure it they'll go out. I've not come across the clearing
procedure you mention; Where is it in the manual?
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
number-1
|
| posted on 12/8/17 at 08:08 AM |
|
|
Hi mate, the clearing process is in the workshop manual......You go into DIAG then to 62, you then turn the kill switch off then on and it clears the
codes apparantly. Its either in the FI section or ELEC section towards the rear of the manual
Regarding the sensors im happy with......ive followed the testing instructions from the manual for resistance and volts etc and they are all within
the parameters...so yes, just the componant tested.
Regarding the black/blue wire.....there was a broken wire of that colour near the starter cut off relay but thats now repaired.
Is there an easy way to test the wiring for a short to earth or broken wire? Ive tested the connectors that go to the sensors and they alll have power
going to them. As Adi mentioned, the OEM harness has been much modified and lots of it are nothing like what it would have been.
As you can probably guess.......im learning on the job about wiring and car electrics as ive never touched a multimeter before 
|
|
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 12/8/17 at 01:59 PM |
|
|
If you trace the red with white tracer wires (comes from the main switch and there's lots of branches of it) and find it joined somewhere to red
with black tracer (and goes to the starter cut-off relay and also the the coils) thats probably where the kill switch was. Fitting an on/off there
will reinstate the kill switch.
The only blue with black tracer going to the starter cut off goes to the sidestand switch and is usually bypassed by connecting it direct to earth
instead. There's also a blue with black feeds 12v from the main switch to the ECU.
The circuit I think you have an issue with is black with blue tracer (so mainly black) though so find that and check it.
I think the bit you think clears the code is just get's you out of the diagnostic mode not clears the codes . If you look at the component
testing procedures you'll see that it says at the end of each test how the code clears itself either by switching the ignition on, starting the
engine, moving the car etc. If the light is on then code/faults are actually present.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
number-1
|
| posted on 12/8/17 at 08:11 PM |
|
|
Well.....another day out there trying to trace wires and work out what the hell im doing...........and i think ive fixed it!
The exup delete relay.......
All of the sensors that were listed as faults were tested but as i replaced them i used contact cleaner. Today i did the same with the exup delete
relay and to start with nothing happened, but as i removed it and replaced it again i saw the eml go out! I removed it and the light came back on,
replaced it and it went out!!!
I did this loads of times and when its plugged back in, the eml goes out!! The car runs ok now when its warm too!
No idea what or why but it works!!!
I have removed a few bits of the loom that were not needed (my eighbour did lol) and re routed most of it and insulated most of it again and it looks
pretty good
Thanks for any advice Adi, it is really appreciated
In a perverse sort of way....I enjoyed getting down and dirty with the electrics and sort of understand the concept behind it!
|
|
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 12/8/17 at 09:45 PM |
|
|
Sounds like a poor connection in the delete relay terminals or board. I made my own but have heard of some being sold having high numbers of
failures.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
