dern
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| posted on 12/2/05 at 05:10 PM |
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R1 engine position (opinions sought pls)
Afternoon,
I took delivery of my MNR manifold and sprocket adapter yesterday so set about trying to position the engine in the chassis.
I had already (rather rashly) put the tranmission tunnel in but moving the right side isn't an issue.
However, I'm seeking advice as to whether or not my proposed engine position is ok or not...
I've raised the chassis off the floor by one inch and the engine is sitting flat on the floor. Is that too low or too high?
It's pretty close to the outside top rail but I think I could get away with it.
The prop won't be dead central to the transmission tunnel but the engine half won't run parallel to the tunnel but make its way to the
center of the tunnel for the middle prop joint. My assumption is that as long as the output shaft from the engine and the input shaft to the diff are
parallel then that's all that matters... is that right?
On the following pictures the line of the output shaft is shown with a piece of box bolted to the sprocket adapter although the prop won't take
that path (see above) it helps me make sure the output shaft is parallel to the chassis.
Here's some pictures...
I think I'm going to use a foam filter sticking out of the bonnet (unless anyone has a better suggestion). What happens when it rains though?
I'm going to chop up the coolant pipes that come out of the top of the head and go to the thermostat housing so that the pipes run flush along
the head.
Any suggestions or comments are gratefully received.
Thanks,
Mark
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Jasper
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| posted on 12/2/05 at 05:14 PM |
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Looks good to me 
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dern
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| posted on 12/2/05 at 05:17 PM |
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Thanks Jasper.
As an aside, does anyone have some picture of BEC engine mounts (not a cradle) I can, erm, be inspired by? 
Cheers,
Mark
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adamhay
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| posted on 12/2/05 at 06:05 PM |
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This is mine - scan through the gallery.....
http://client.webshots.com/photo/265479901/265479901UHiIzv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnp0WDDW7xs
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Peteff
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| posted on 12/2/05 at 06:40 PM |
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Shouldn't the line where the sump joins be parallel to the floor? If it's angled up a bit more you may be able to align it with your
tunnel without much chopping about. What happens when it rains though? It gets wet I suppose
[Edited on 12/2/05 by Peteff]
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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dern
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| posted on 12/2/05 at 07:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
Shouldn't the line where the sump joins be parallel to the floor? If it's angled up a bit more you may be able to align it with your
tunnel without much chopping about. What happens when it rains though? It gets wet I suppose
The conclusion of
this thread was that the bottom of the sump should be parallel to the floor. Mine
isn't precisely parallel to the floor due to those little feet you can see to the right of the sump in picture two but it's as near as
damnit.
What I meant when I mentioned the rain was wether or not having the filter sticking through the bonnet would cause water to be sucked in to the engine
or not?
Regards,
Mark
[Edited on 12/2/05 by dern]
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Wadders
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| posted on 12/2/05 at 07:43 PM |
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No problems to report, even in the heaviest of downpours.
Al.
What I meant when I mentioned the rain was wether or not having the filter sticking through the bonnet would cause water to be sucked in to the engine
or not?
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Peteff
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| posted on 12/2/05 at 07:44 PM |
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Yes, the cutaway diagram shows it well. The pickup is parallel to the base of the sump. On the filter, engines should run better on moisture laden air
as it is denser. Unless you are absolutely drowning it shouldn't be any different to any of the other locost type cars running round with
exposed filters. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 12/2/05 at 07:47 PM |
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I think Pete has a point here. The engine is designed to run parallel in the bike engine. Therefore, as Pete says the sump/engine joint should be
horizontal in any event. Our ZX12R engine has a wickedly shaped sump so levelling it would be impossible.
IMHO the engine when viewed from the front is too clockwise, and too high. Personally I'd level up the joint first, then bolt on the prop to
ensure you gain enough clearance in the tunnel. By relying on that box section for a make-shift prop isn't going to guarantee you clearance you
require. Once that is done you could make temporary fittings to make sure your engine fits under your bonnet, you can always chop the sump...
it'd look a bit unsightly having the cam covers pocking through the bonnet aswell as the filter...
Plan well, well ahead for this one...
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 12/2/05 at 10:40 PM |
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From bike transplant site
[Edited on 12-2-05 by mangogrooveworkshop]
 
Rescued attachment r1 mount.jpg
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 12/2/05 at 10:42 PM |
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r1 cradle dont know whos this is
 
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dern
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| posted on 12/2/05 at 10:44 PM |
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Thanks guys.
I'll be using a foam filter out of the bonnet then and won't worry about it.
The pictures of the engine mounts are great, cheers.
I've emailed MNR to ask their advice about engine orientation. My gut instinct is to mount the engine as it is in the bike which is with the
base of the sump parallel to the ground but I hear what people are saying.
All good fun though eh?
Mark
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Jasper
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| posted on 13/2/05 at 10:08 AM |
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I would go for parallel sump, and I wouldn't wont any more than an inch below the bottom rail. I seriously recommend a sump guard too under that
(which will add an extra 1/2 inch) as I have regularly ground mine out on speed bump etc.
I went for a simple but easy cradle system which unbolts.
 
Rescued attachment enginebaysm.jpg
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 13/2/05 at 12:05 PM |
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Mangroove, I think that one is Richard Miles's Striker, I recognise the huge ACB10 rear tyres he had on it
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phelpsa
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| posted on 13/2/05 at 12:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mangogrooveworkshop
[Edited on 12-2-05 by mangogrooveworkshop]
Thats what I'm doing.
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phelpsa
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| posted on 13/2/05 at 12:52 PM |
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[img]http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?action=attachment&tid=22395&pid=180793[/img]
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Bob C
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| posted on 13/2/05 at 01:13 PM |
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If you want to mount the engine on rubber you might want a peek in my photo archive, eg.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=showphoto&photo=engmntfr.jpg
All in all not much different to the others but might be a bit comfier!
cheers
Bob
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dern
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| posted on 13/2/05 at 08:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
I think Pete has a point here. The engine is designed to run parallel in the bike engine. Therefore, as Pete says the sump/engine joint should be
horizontal in any event. Our ZX12R engine has a wickedly shaped sump so levelling it would be impossible.
IMHO the engine when viewed from the front is too clockwise, and too high. Personally I'd level up the joint first, then bolt on the prop to
ensure you gain enough clearance in the tunnel.
Word back from MNR... the base of the sump should be level and not the sump/crankcase join.
Cheers,
Mark
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Stu16v
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| posted on 13/2/05 at 08:46 PM |
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...as it is in the bike...
Dont just build it.....make it!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 13/2/05 at 10:22 PM |
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To be perfectly honest, I dont reckon it would make much difference within a couple of degrees, if you think about it, in the bike the engine will go
through quite a few different for/aft angles depending on braking, accelerating, whether there's a pillion on the back etc etc. having said that
obviously the ultimate goal is to make sure that the oil pickup is horizontal so the oil doesnt flow away from it in either direction, so Id go along
with the consensus that it should be as it sits on the ground with the base of the sump horizontal, and to ignore the line of the sump gasket.
[Edited on 13/2/05 by ChrisGamlin]
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Rorty
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| posted on 14/2/05 at 04:02 AM |
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I would agree with CG; a couple of degrees either way won't make any difference.
BTW, does anyone have accurate dimensions of the R1 engine, particularly the mounting points?
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 14/2/05 at 09:40 AM |
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I only got my engine last week but will measure it up at some point, Im not sure how accurate I can do it tho, whats the best method?
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Rorty
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| posted on 14/2/05 at 11:47 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
I only got my engine last week but will measure it up at some point, Im not sure how accurate I can do it tho, whats the best method?
In the absence of a decent CMM , the best method is to set the engine on a board with two straight lines drawn on it, at right angles to eachother.
It doesn't matter if the engine is not central, though it is important to make sure the cases are parallel to one of the lines. I would remove
one of the side covers and use a set square to get the engine level and parallel to a line. When the engine's perfectly level in the X & Y
planes and then use a series of set squares and steel rulers to establish all the points. I normally pick the bottom rear mounting hole as the datum
and take all other measurements from there. Don't forget to plot the centre of the sprocket too.
If I were closer, I would give you a hand; I don't have a CMM, but I do have a bunch of height and surface gauges which make the job easier.
I'd also buy you beer.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Coose
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 09:18 PM |
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Have a look here....
http://www.ne7ers.co.uk/modules.php?set_albumName=albun01&op=modload&name=Gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
The mountings aren't finished in these pics, where I've added a vertical to each of the rears, and a diagonal from the top left to the
bottom right (in relation to the engine position). I'll stick some more pics on there once I get chance!
Spin 'er off Well...
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 10:07 PM |
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Coose, is that a set of flatslides on your engine? Is it a tuned lump then?
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