Taylor7
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| posted on 3/3/05 at 02:19 PM |
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spline details
I am going to be making my own adaptor for bike engine spline to sierra drive shaft .Is there by any chance someone who has the spline details(cad or
hand drawn) for a 1988 Honda cbr 1000f. It would save me the task of measuring all up (I`ll be E.d.m wiring it EN24t for those in the know).Any help
would be great..
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locoboy
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| posted on 3/3/05 at 02:32 PM |
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I have one but un fitted but dont have the facitlity to measure it for you.
ATB
Locoboy
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tks
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| posted on 3/3/05 at 09:53 PM |
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huh??
just use the bik pinion with a turn machine down to almost the spines..
weld that in a room you turn in a axle
weld on that axle another ring turn the ring a bit of and you are done..
TKS
 
Rescued attachment 150105 005small.JPG
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welderman
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| posted on 3/3/05 at 10:47 PM |
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Is thst a realy good fit,ie when your engine is turning over there is no woble movement.
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Taylor7
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| posted on 4/3/05 at 08:38 AM |
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tks-
I dont have the bike pinion + the adaptor is already made and just needs the spline adding.Otherwise would have been good idea..
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JoelP
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| posted on 4/3/05 at 10:02 AM |
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having the UJ so far from the engine will amplify any un-balancedness. Remember the photos of the famous on that failed? it was similar. The bearings
on the bike output arent designed for such high loads, i suspect they would wear fast as the forces would not be balanced. as it gets more worn, the
vibrations get worse and you could end up with a stress fracture.
all IMHO, but you know what broken props do.
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Kissy
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| posted on 4/3/05 at 12:56 PM |
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I have a Stuart-Taylor adaptor which is CBR1000F to Escort (same as sierra??), I can easily give you pics and dims if you want. They made it with the
sprocket I gave them (same fit as blade) You'll need spacers for the clutch slave cylinder. to clear the adaptor (easy to make from ally bar
and M6 stud)
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Taylor7
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| posted on 4/3/05 at 01:18 PM |
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sent you an e-mail kissy.
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phelpsa
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| posted on 4/3/05 at 05:26 PM |
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Failing that, ring chris allanson at Zcars, he knows everything to do with BECs, he knew what sprocket adaptor was needed for my GSXR1100 engine out
of his head
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Hellfire
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| posted on 4/3/05 at 10:18 PM |
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Joel - must agree... that adaptor looks very familiar...
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alister667
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| posted on 6/3/05 at 12:27 AM |
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TKS,
Just wanted to draw your attention to a problem a guy on locostbuilders (Woodster) had about 18 months ago.
He bought a car through SPD, anyhow it's sprocket adaptor does resemble yours in that it has a lenght of the prop coming out of the bike box
before it gets to a UJ,
 
prop pic
It failed on a track day and led to a thrashing prophaft trying to break through into the footwell and trying to reduce the number of woodsters
feet!
It's well worth reading up on this - I'm including some links to threads.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=7874
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=8030
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=11243
I have to agree with Joel and Hellfire, that looks as though it might well do the same thing at some point in the future.
All the best
Ali
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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tks
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 10:16 AM |
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sprocket...
hi guys....
i have been looking at the 2 pictures...
and the thing what i see is that mine has less lengt Its 100mm of lengt..
i use a bearing / flector in the middle of the shaft...
then, the first thing i thought when looking at the failed sprocket adapter was that the bolt who whas holding them tight / in has come of.. and when
furder at the end there are the teeth worn/bend..
i think in any case that the more lenght the worse it is...
its a good think that you all have token my attention to this..now i can look better to the problem but i have no idea how to resolve the problem.
the bearing wear / loads i have also thought on them and yes they will be higher in case you make it less lenght..
but on the original bike they are much heavier...
because the pinion want to trow the wheel to the front.... in fact thats the reason that many bikes (the small ones 49,9cc) always have the rear end
bend towards because they have more power as calc..etc..
the only thing i can say is i hope i'm between the forces wich have the bike orignally..and i think i do....
i think that i just need to extra secure the sprocket adapter to the teeth..maybe using a small screw or something in that way it never can come of in
case i lose the bolt. will clue that bolt in.....
Maybe i redesign the front a bit for better alignment..
what do you all suggest???
moving the clutch slave cilinder???
the problem with that is that my axcle goes towards that cilinder soow i cant move it..
i also want you attention that my propshaft and (the ring with the 4 holes)
is centered at the other ring and not just bolted to it...
when i dry start it in 4 gear..i don't see it shake..
i hope i don't have to change the design
when i start the engine for the first time we will see what it does at more revs..
maybe i have to balance it a bit better etc..
TKS
[Edited on 16/3/05 by tks]
[Edited on 16/3/05 by tks]
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 10:23 AM |
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I did mention this when you posted a picture of it in another thread a month or so ago, not sure if you saw it or not. Id agree with the others, looks
all too similar to the one that failed - the splines are not really designed to locate something that size - you would only need the slightest
imbalance and it will start putting lots of bending forces on the spline section, and on the bolt holding it all together.
PS - Ive got a blade sprocket sitting at home if anyone wants to offer me a few quid for it
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Kissy
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 01:03 PM |
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...and I've got a CBR thou sprocket, same splines as 'Blade, free to a good home, you pay the postage, 'bout 2 quid tops (can take
PayPal)
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tks
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 01:21 PM |
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...another option of failure..
First..would be the spines the same as for my Honda VFR????
..then i have another thought...
since the fact that u se a flector / bearing in the middle and at the end of the dif...
i was thinking of another factor..
if you look at the pic...
i looks realy strange that it has been fitted one day, that putted my mind on another thing.. i use a flector in the middle..
that gave me the possibility to have movement while mounting it...
in fact i use the hole donor axcle.. so i also use the 12cm long spine..etc...
the flector itself has also holes that are round 12 but they are largen in witdh not in high.."keyholes" soow i alsways start mounting it
on the engine side then i do the flector side...
What do the guys that don't use a flector but one axcle??
they bolt it on the diff...and go straight to the engine.. but as you can imagine..
if the axcle is 1 hundreds of mm to short and you are pulling the bolts/nuts on then you put allot of force on the axle and on the part that broke in
above picture..
the bolt who is in that part would then need to beat the inbalance AND the already putted force of the to short axle...
in my case it only needs to cope/resist the inbalance wich is very low because i use a extra ring on it wich goes gently in the sierra part...
because i cant move the slave cil (clutch)
i'm letting the situ like it is, i only have added some extra rings and i make some thing sow in case that if the axcle brakes it cant fall on
the ground etc..(in facti want to make a ring over it...)
in any case it was a good point letting me know i apreciate it very very much..
and know i can prepare if it goes wrong...
in case it goes wrong i change the complete engine to another layout (4 inline) but we will see....
later some better pics of the center ring that i talk about.
also it looks if the part didn't cover the complete spline width....but that can only pics confirm..
TKS
[Edited on 16/3/05 by tks]
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 02:07 PM |
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Hi TKS
You're English is 100x better than my Spanish but Im not sure I entirely understand everything you said
I think you have the impression that most people use a single piece prop without a centre bearing, or that most don't run with a sliding joint
(flector?) - Every car Ive seen though does have a centre bearing or two props and a reverse box.
I can see what you are saying about if you dont have a sliding joint then it could put a pulling load on the flange, but I dont think thats really an
issue as the centre bearing is rubber mounted so it gives enough movement to eliminate this concern, unless you had the measurements way out in which
case it would be obvious that it was too short. Even if it did have a pulling load all thats likely to happen is the retaining bolt would break, but a
small flange would likely still stay on the splines because it couldnt come off cos the prop wouldnt let it.
Your forces could be a lot different, the long extension could act like a lever, I guess the easist way to try and explain what I am thinking is
this:-
Try undoing a tight bolt with two ratchet extensions and a UJ in the middle of them with the UJ at an angle - when you put twisting force on the
ratchet, the two extensions try to go sideways and don't easily transmit the force to the socket. Now try it with one extension and the UJ
directly connected to the socket - it doesnt try to twist nearly as much.
Chris
[Edited on 16/3/05 by ChrisGamlin]
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tks
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 02:18 PM |
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well
not every one uses a reverse box and then it would be the same case,anyway
if you have some pics about you prop mounting then i know that idea...
my legs/feet are at the other side of the car, the prop cant reach that...
the worst that could happen is that the prop..brakes and that you overrev the engine.. and that the prop brakes some hoses etc....
Can woodster give me de dimensions of his piece?? the total lenght...??
a new engine for me is a pain in the axx
it will cost me 1500euro..thats 750Pounds complete with loom... i will have the ability to choose one...... R1, or CBR1000 etc..
i already have holes in the side panels for the exhaust soow need to change one of them to..
will cost money... as you might untherstand the money is there...
but i dont wanna spend more then its needed....
i dunno know what to do...
but i have realy much onfident in the setup i have....will use some rubber between the 2 flanges...would that be an idea??
TKS
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 02:43 PM |
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Rather than use the long prop flange, could you not fabricate up some kind of cradle that would allow you to mount a very short prop with a bearing at
the other end, something like this (forgive the quick "Paint" diagram
 
Possible prop mounting
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alister667
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 05:06 PM |
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Here's a picture of mine. Hope it's of help.
It uses an MK sprocket adaptor and a custom made propshaft with a slider up towards the Universal Joint beside the adaptor. .
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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tks
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| posted on 18/3/05 at 01:53 PM |
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well
yesterday i have tryed the engine running...
offcourse after the first test in neutral oil level water etc..
making flames
and after some wire tricking i could start the engine in gear..
i have looked good at the parts but they seem to be okay.
the worst piece is the diff conection i use not the part to the engine...
soow i'm desinging a new one.
maybe i steal the toppic but what would be better using a new UJ or using the rubber one from the sierra (the one with 3 bolts (6)..??
when accelerate the UJ in the middle (with thebearing) moves in his rubber to the right then you hold throttle and it comes back....
the next time (after making all the parts i'm gonna stess my part more..(with handbrakes a bit on...)
any one ideas or more pics??
Alister what is the diameter of your first UJ
(not the sierra one)
if i do the same trick i maybe can throw away the long prop adapter...
TKS
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tks
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| posted on 18/3/05 at 02:01 PM |
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my situation
here is a pic of my situation...
but offcourse in an earlier stage then that i now am now i also have conected the prop adapter
will make new foto..
[Edited on 18/3/05 by tks]
 
Rescued attachment 24122004 013 small.JPG
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chrism
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 12:39 AM |
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Heres some spline details for the CBR1000F 93-96.
 
Rescued attachment jtf339.jpg
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A little hard work never killed anyone, but why take the risk!
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