JoaoCaldeira
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 posted on 5/11/02 at 10:12 AM |
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Pan European - Opinions
Hi all!
Planning a future build of a se7en, I'm inclined to use the Pan European - 1100, 100hp - engine with a Stuart Taylor chassis/fibre/suspension.
The use will be 95% road, 5% trash, <7500 km/year. I don't need too much power, too.
As I live in Portugal, I need a LHD car, so I can't have an engine protruding the driver's footweell  .
What are your opinions regarding
* engine (aren't bike bike engines too poor regarding torque  )
* ST (he doens't seem TOO cheap, but his stuff seems good)
Many thanks in advance,
Joćo Caldeira,
Lisbon, Portugal
(where the sun is still shining, althought a lillte cold - max 19ŗcelsius )
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MK9R
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| posted on 5/11/02 at 12:23 PM |
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I don't know the pan engines, but a car fitted with a bike engine (such as a blade, zx9...) cant be LHD because of the steering column position can
it?? Or am i just being a bit stupid?
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jimgiblett
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| posted on 5/11/02 at 12:31 PM |
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Don't know about the ST chassis but I have seen a LHD ZX9 Fury that Fisher Sportscars built for a client (indeed I think there are quite a few LHD
BECs in the US.
Give ST / Fishers a call
Cheers
Jim
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Mave
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| posted on 5/11/02 at 02:35 PM |
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LHD BEC is no problem, well, not impossible anyway. Look at this one:
http://www.haselier.nl/kitcars.htm
It can be done, it seems to be about placing the engine further to the right. Don't know about the consequences for the prop-angle though.......
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MK9R
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| posted on 5/11/02 at 02:45 PM |
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Ok, i was being stupid!!
Looks as tight as a gnats chuff though!!
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 5/11/02 at 06:53 PM |
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if you bought the steering column down at a steep angle then horizontal(via uj) to the rack,mount the rack with the pinion horizontal,ok ill go back
to my cave,sorry 
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Mave
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| posted on 6/11/02 at 08:29 AM |
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Well, I also saw a (norwegian or swedish) LHD Westfield, which had a RHD rack, and the steering column went over (!) the engine (using one or two
joints). Looked a bit overcomplex.
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mr minimal
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| posted on 6/11/02 at 07:54 PM |
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stuart taylor
pan euro a good engine and chosen because of its higher torque. Makes nearly same bhp as blade but nicer to drive, and you get an exhaust either side
of your car which you may find cool. As regards stuart taylor the guy who runs it is an arse. Crap grp has been my main problem with no attempt on
his behalf to rectify or compensate me for having a totally poo bonnet. Try mk and never look back. for lhd advice go to findit.co.uk and look in
kit car services for mach1 builders. These boys'll help you no doubt.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 6/11/02 at 09:36 PM |
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I don't think many will argue against you that the GRP from ST is pants, and Ian can be rather dismissive and arrogant at times, but he always seemed
OK when it came to getting things swapped out if they were wrong. What happened with the bonnet then?
Chris
[Edited on 6/11/02 by ChrisGamlin]
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mr minimal
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| posted on 9/11/02 at 08:55 AM |
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st bonnet
bonnet had sunk inbetween the strenghtening ribs in the bonnet creating a seaside wave effect. Also the glassfibre had been repaired when in the
mould which shows as a 2" round mess through the gelcoat. He gave me a bonnet bulge as compensation but this was cracked down one side and had lumps
in the finish aswell. I argued quite strongly with him but he wouldnt budge. Pity cos his engineering and chassis design are one of the best, and
gonna be building another 7 soon, but dont think ill be giving him any more of my hard earned. I spoke to some other people who took their finished
7s to show him and apparently he told some of them he thought they were crap and wouldnt pass sva! Anyway, moan over. What did you build? Im gettin
on the bec wagon, oh the shame!
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Jasper
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| posted on 9/11/02 at 10:18 AM |
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Mach 1 Motorsport - speak to Mark - 0114 2619 633. I bought my ZX9R from him, and since then I've rung him on a weekly basis to ask for advice on my
build, he's a friendly chap and happy to talk for as long as you like and has helped me enormously - I can't recommend him enough. He's also a good
source of cheaper branded bits as he gets the wholesale (seat belts, fans, wheels etc).
As for ST, well, most of you know my opinion of him. HOWEVER, he says he's happy to exchange the longer silencer for a shorter one no probs, as the
exhaust is lovely and a good price - so he aint all bad.
As for GRP, go to Triton.
That's my 2p's for today!
PS Any BEC chaps comin to Exeter???
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 9/11/02 at 01:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mr minimal
bonnet had sunk inbetween the strenghtening ribs in the bonnet........................... Anyway, moan over. What did you build? Im gettin on the
bec wagon, oh the shame!
Hi Mr Minimal, doesn't sound a good way to conduct business does it, there's no way I'd accept GRP of that quality, mine was ropey but on the
outside was generally OK, just rough round the edges, and a bonnet bulge isnt fair compensation unless you were planning on that to begin with.
Mine is a 'blade in an MK chassis but with mostly ST parts, bodywork, ally panels, prop, engine cradle for the blade engine etc. Seeing as it is an
MK chassis I would have gone to them for all the other parts, but they didn't do much BEC stuff at the time and didn't offer a full 7 piece GRP set
at the time (including bonnet and rear panel) like ST did, though they do now.
The gripes I had at the time were primarily the wait for the GRP, about 2 months, the dash panel they sent me which was broken and didnt fit (which he
refunded no probs), and the fact that he sold me a £15 'blade baffle plate despite telling all his racer mates that they were a waste of money and
not to bother.
Chris
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 11/11/02 at 07:43 PM |
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anyway back to the pan,is it a V6,shaft drive,water cooled,any power output figures and how much roughly would i get robbed for i wanted to get one?
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mr minimal
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| posted on 11/11/02 at 08:15 PM |
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pan euro
pan euro is a v4, 1100. In standard tune they make around 90bhp. The trouble with them is its difficult to get tuning parts for the engine as the
bike is not exactly bought by hammerheads. I guess you can fiddle with the jets, set the needle jets higher(less economical). You should see over
100bhp at rear wheels with some fiddling. Prices tend to range from £500 to £1000, most engines are high mileage cos of the type of bike plus they
dont get crashed as much as blades so are a bit rarer. Shaft drive so the adaption to prop is quite straight forward.
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mr minimal
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| posted on 11/11/02 at 08:23 PM |
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stuart taylor - mk compatibilty
hey chris. In your reply you said that you used an mk chassis with stuart taylor bodywork. At the time of building my st up, i rang mk to see if
their bodywork would fit my car, they said no. did you build an indy or a live axle. Ideally i would like to use st chassis(i know i slagged him but
the chassis i really like and its well executed)and the mk plastics, which seem to be of higher quality and cheaper. Just wondered if you had any
opinions on whether they would mate up ok. I think the mk side panels wont fit cos the indy chassis is 1" taller than the st, but the rest should be
ok? Any info appreciated. Thanks.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 11/11/02 at 11:48 PM |
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ST / MK Compatibility
Mine is a live axled MK chassis, well I think its an MK.... I bought it as a part built kit (the bloke bolted the suspension on then lost interest),
its definitely a factory fabricated chassis and it has the distinctive front wishbones, so I think its an MK. Also, its not a blade chassis, it
originally had a boat anchor 1300 X Flow in it as the original owner was going to go Locost Racing.
Anyway, on to your questions, my chassis is totally book dimensions, as is the ST bodywork, so I couldnt comment on the MK Indy fibreglass I'm
afraid. When fitting mine I did have problems with the ST ally side panels which seemed a little (about 5-10mm) too deep for my chassis, and also the
rear fibreglass panel which was about 20mm not deep enough so doesnt fully wrap around the lower tube, it kinda sits on it rather than round it,
sounds odd, not noticable in practice. The back panel also didnt wrap around enough towards the rear wheel arches, meaning I had to use two strips of
extruded angle ally to fasten the panel to the two diagonal tubes in that area (sorry crap explanation!).
I could also envisage issues fitting the nose cone, I chopped out my radiator mounts and mounted my blade rad seperately but I'm not sure about
clearance if using a Polo rad on an ST chassis, whether the MK would go over top.
The other thing, if the MK chassis is 1" higher, does that mean the scuttle/bonnet/nose is 1" lower? If so, there may well be engine clearance
issues.
I imagine you probably could make it all fit, but there might be a couple of tricky areas and its a bit of a risk unless you budget for possibly
having to buy another set of bodywork in the worse case scenario!
BTW, the car will be out for a trackday at Brooklands (Weybridge, Surrey) on Saturday the 30th if anyone wants to come and have a look, along with
about 25 other BECs of various flavours, so should be good.
cheers
Chris
[Edited on 12/11/02 by ChrisGamlin]
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JoaoCaldeira
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| posted on 12/11/02 at 09:56 AM |
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Pan Euro
In Portugal, standard hp is 100, torque 79lb.ft / 111 Nm. The Pan bike weights 281 Kgs, which, in my opinion, makes it more suitable to a car as the
weight difference isn't as notorious as in any other bike (except for Goldwing, BMW ???, etc...)
Weight relation
Bike : Car (550kgs estimated)
Pan 1 : 1,95 (281 Kg)
ZX-9R 1 : 2,56 (215 Kg)
R1 1 : 3,16 ( 174 Kg)
I think (am I wrong??? please enlight me) that this minor difference between the bike and car's weight will be positive to the gearbox. It will help
the car be more realiable.
Opinions?
Joćo Caldeira
[Edited on 02/11/12 by JoaoCaldeira]
[Edited on 02/11/12 by JoaoCaldeira]
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 12/11/02 at 11:13 AM |
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Joao, what you say is correct, in that there is less difference in weight between the car and the bike, although bear in mind that the Pan engine is
probably a fair bit heavier than an R1 engine, so an R1 based car would weigh about 30-40kgs lighter than an aquivalent Pan based car.
What does a Pan Euro rev to and how is it geared, is it 6 speed? You would ideally need to work out what the speed the output flange rotates at at max
speed and compare it to a blade/R1 etc, and hope it is similar, as otherwise you may find that its almost impossible to find a suitable diff/wheel
size combination that will give you a reasonable top speed / cruising ability.
Chris
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JoaoCaldeira
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| posted on 12/11/02 at 06:02 PM |
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Hi Chris,
thanks for your input.
The information I found was:
* Transmission: 5- speed
* Final drive: Shaft drive, 2.833:1 final ratio
Does this help?
There is an owner who have one Se7en (ST) with a Pan engine and it only says good of it...  (smoth, powerful, etc...)
http://website.lineone.net/~btbromilow/locost.htm
Joćo Caldeira
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