gixxerboy
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 10:37 AM |
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GSXR 1100
Hmmm.... I'm building a locost but haven't had much luck finding a suitable car engine... However I do have an old GSXR engine sitting in
my garage (the first generation 1052cc, oil cooled type)... Question is though do I really want to use an engine designed to power a vehicle weighing
197 kilos to power a vehicle weighing in around the 500 kilo mark? Have any of you guys used this type of engine before? Any comments would be
appreciated.
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smart51
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 10:53 AM |
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Most bike engines are designed to pull along a vehicle weighing 200kg or less.
They have low ratio final drives and 17" wheels. Cars have higher ratio drives and 15" wheels (say) and so the effect of car + driver
versus bike+rider is only about 50% more.
An 1100cc bike engine should be well up to the job. I don't know if there would be sufficient air flow for cooling though. You could fit a fan
but where would you put the thermal switch?
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 11:31 AM |
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were all fitting/fitted bike engines in our cars
theyre good fun
most have used the 900cc firebalde engine.
your engine might be slightly down on power not much compared to newer versions
its all down to whether many have used the engine before as to what kind of help you get..
some engines although the start off price sounds good it could end up costing a load with special fabrications oil dry sump etc
chris
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decay
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 11:53 AM |
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This engine needs dry sumping, Many have had blown engines due to oil starvation.
Heres a pic of the kit we are fitting to our k1 engine. costs about £1400 uk.
 
Rescued attachment gsxr1000drysumpkit.jpg
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 12:11 PM |
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decay, you're talking about the new gixer 1000 engine, not the old 110 thats being discussed here. I think the old 1100 is known for being as
tough as old boots and was used a lot in sidecars (I believe without dry sumping), but not 100% sure about running it at 90 degrees in a front
engine'd car.
I think the problem you may have with the oil cooled engine is keeping it cool, because the BEC will be geared much lower, you will be revving the
engine much more than in the bike and generally putting more load on it, so the oil is likely to get hotter than it would when in the bike.
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tks
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 10:44 PM |
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mhh
think you can do the job,
just buy 3 fans..
and stick them in the nose....in series
when oil is getting 99degrees start all of them...
when on speed switch 2 off... etc..
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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gixxerboy
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| posted on 22/11/05 at 09:26 AM |
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Thanks for your comments so far. The old
oil cooled GSXR1100 engine does have a
reputation as being bullet proof and is basically the same engine as fitted to the current model 1200 bandits (do you have them in the UK?). I was
thinking a bit of clever ducting could direct enough cooling air over the head and barrels (ducting air in from the intake side and out through the
exhaust side). And front mounting the oil cooler where a radiator would normally be mounted in the nose cone with fan assist. Why would dry sumping be
necessary though, to counter oil surge caused by lateral g forces???
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 22/11/05 at 09:48 AM |
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Yep, in the bike the engine doesnt see significant lateral G because the bike/engine leans into the corner, whereas in the car the engine is always
upright so the oil gets sloshed from side to side when cornering. Its not needed on all engines, probably about 50% of useable bike engines (most
notably R1, blade and ZX9) have proven not to need them unless possibly when running slicks. Other engines such as busa, Gixer 1000, ZX12 are in a
grey area for track use, and then there's engines like the Blackbird that almost certainly need dry sumping
[Edited on 22/11/05 by ChrisGamlin]
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robby
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| posted on 28/11/05 at 04:47 PM |
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used this engine, just not on the road yet! all done 'cept tidying up. mounted an oil cooler in the nose, with a thermostat in the oil line.
standard sump. mate races a single seater, same engine but supercharged, no probs. the oil surge when cornering won't be anything like it is
under braking on the bike ( being turned round 90 degrees) any q's i'm happy to answer, but i don't go on here very often! if you
go with the 11, i'll give you my phone no. as i say, if you saw charlie racing, you'd have no worries about the engine - especially
power!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 28/11/05 at 06:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by robby
the oil surge when cornering won't be anything like it is under braking on the bike
If that was the case then no BEC would need dry sumping or need baffle plates, but they do.
I dont think an average superbike under braking would match the 1+G of acceleration seen when cornering in a BEC, either way though it certainly
wouldnt be loads more in the bike, and the big difference is that when braking in the bike, the engine will not be under load so any oil surge issues
wouldnt necessarily do the engine any damage, whereas it would when cornering at full chat in the BEC.
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G.Man
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| posted on 28/11/05 at 06:24 PM |
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I would suggest the braking forces would be pretty extreme, but the real issue is the engine is under no load and not revving like it is in a
bec...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 28/11/05 at 06:32 PM |
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Most superbikes seem to struggle to do 100-0mph in under 5s, which I think is under 1g deceleration?
If that's correct I guess maybe because of the way the forces are exerted on the body when braking on a bike, it probably feels much more force
on the body than cornering in a car?
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robby
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| posted on 29/11/05 at 08:55 AM |
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aye, never thought about the engine not being under load. mate had trouble in his bec with fuel starvation under cornering, but no probs wi oil. he
went to injection.
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G.Man
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| posted on 29/11/05 at 09:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Most superbikes seem to struggle to do 100-0mph in under 5s, which I think is under 1g deceleration?
If we look at the race bikes they will manage better deceleration than a road bike as they are lighter etc, but with the fork dive the oil does slop
forward fairly well..
But your main assumption is absolutely correct, the oil isnt doing any work under braking so the chances of it sucking up air are slim in the
extreme...
I am with you Chris on this one, I have spent over £1600 drysumping my kwak (3 stage kit, tank, aeroquip fittings etc) almost as much as the £1800 I
paid for the 4000 mile motor... I wouldnt want to risk blowing it up under hard cornering..
It only takes a small air bubble to start the bearings picking up...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 29/11/05 at 09:53 AM |
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Yep I guess on slicks and with the angle of the bike diving its nose, there will be more inclination to slop away on a race bike, and they
aren't dry sumped so that does point more to our theory of not under load being a big factor as to why they don't suffer in the bike 
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robby
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| posted on 29/11/05 at 01:43 PM |
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i think that unless you're racing, there are few corners long enough, that we'll be going round hard enough, to cause any problems...
although that looks like the sort of phrase that will come back to haunt me!
[Edited on 29/11/05 by robby]
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 29/11/05 at 03:48 PM |
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Yep it probably will! 
It doesnt need a particularly long corner to get oil surge, as soon as the oil pickup is exposed to free air it will suck up a slug of air even if
within a second or so its immersed back in oil. That little slug of air will still give a momentary starvation of oil to the engine even if its only
for a very short time, so could still cause damage even if it doesnt do it immediately.
Having said that, if you're only using it on the road then you wont be cornering so hard even if there are long corners, so are less likely to
see oil surge problems.
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Taz Surfleet
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| posted on 2/12/05 at 05:18 PM |
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A 32 row oil cooler should resolve cooling issues in the gixer, biggest headache Ive had is the clutch turning the engine through 90 puts the
hydraulic clutch where you want the shaft to run! i ve resolved this using an lotus excel slave cylinder, I think phelpsa had z cars resolve this by
shaving the cover ?
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