smart51
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| posted on 14/1/06 at 10:26 AM |
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Fitting dynojet kit to an R1
-EDIT- PLEASE READ LATER POST. HELP NEEDED -EDIT-
My dynojet kit arrived today. I have two questions about fitting it.
1) There are 140, 144 and 150 main jets. Which should I use? I have a foam filter without an airbox and I have an equal length 4-into-1 manifold
witha straight through can.
2) It says to epoxy closed the "brass main air jet" near the "aluminium bell mouth boss". Both Haynes and the R1 sevice
manual say that there is a "pilot air jet" near the trumpet. Is this what they are talking about?
[Edited on 18-1-2006 by smart51]
[Edited on 30-6-2006 by smart51]
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RichieC
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| posted on 14/1/06 at 10:57 AM |
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I think this is the top view of the R1 carb, hope it helps:
 
Rescued attachment untitled.JPG
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progers
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| posted on 14/1/06 at 02:32 PM |
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Hi,
I would put in the 144 mains to start with - it should get you thereabouts until such time you can check it on a rolling road.
Regarding which jet to block up, I'm pretty sure its the smaller of the two jets that you cannot screw out i.e. the pilot jet in the picture
above. Just to be extra sure I would seek confirmation of this with TTS or another person on this site who has done it more recently than me.....
Cheers
Paul
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smart51
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| posted on 14/1/06 at 03:25 PM |
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The instructions read:
4) remove the float bowls, locate the standard main jet and remove. Replace with a 144 main jet, [I should have read this more thoroughly] and refit
bowl.
5) Locate the fuel mixture screw undeneath each carb at the front next to the float bowl. Turn in or out to obtain the best idle.
6) Remove the aluminium bell mouth boss (2 screws). Using more of the epoxy, blank off the brass main air jet. Refit bellmouth boss.
The only thing I can think this means is what haynes calls the pilot jet near the trumpets. I though I'd better check before doing it.
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OX
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| posted on 14/1/06 at 05:00 PM |
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nothing gets blocked off in the float bowl,,its the air jet .when the carbs are on the bike look into them and it will probably be at the bottom of
the opening
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RichieC
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| posted on 14/1/06 at 06:27 PM |
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Oops, sorry you did say main air in your first post.
Might be worth doing a how-to when youre doing it with piccys to help peeps in future. Its an often asked topic.
Are you balancing the carbs? Doing the same to each should in theory not throw the balance out, but Im not sure how open to problems "Turn in
or out to obtain the best idle" is. Might be worth it for piece of mind
I think I might still have a kit here for that if I hunt hard enough.
Rgds
Rich
[Edited on 14/1/06 by RichieC]
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smart51
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| posted on 15/1/06 at 04:53 PM |
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I have fitted the dynojet kit a described. 144 main jets, new needles on groove 2 (counting from the bottom). Blocked up 1 hole on the slide and the
air jets near the trumpet bosses.
It sounds wrong at idle. Very stacatto. It doesn't seem to matter where the idle screw mixtures are set.
At 2500-3000 it sounds like a machine gun. It doesn't like driving at these speed and in 1st (2000 = 9mph ish) it kangaroos like crazy.
at higher revs it is better and runs without coughing or spluttering. (without the dynojet kit it used to at full throttle at high revs).
Any ideas what is wrong and how I can fix it?
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 15/1/06 at 06:36 PM |
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I think you should take your car to the rolling road and get it properly set up and as they set it up ask them what there doing so you learn aswell
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smart51
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| posted on 15/1/06 at 07:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zxrlocost
I think you should take your car to the rolling road and get it properly set up
that is what I'm going to do but in its current state I don't think it will get there, not unless I never slow below 5000 RPM or 25 MPH,
which is a bit tricky.
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OX
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| posted on 15/1/06 at 07:48 PM |
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you have blocked the pilot jet and not the air jet
the air jet is underneath the trumpet ,take air box off look underneath one of the trumpets and its the only one there
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G.Man
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| posted on 15/1/06 at 08:43 PM |
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144 jets on the outer 2 pistons and 150 jets on the inner two pistons..
They run hotter so need a richer mixture...
Sounds like you have blocked the idle jet not the main air jet...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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smart51
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| posted on 15/1/06 at 10:35 PM |
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So the main air jet is inside the throat of the carb, between the trumpet and the throttle butterfly? Where is the other end of that? I'd
rather no put epoxy in the airflow in case it comes loose and gets sucked in.
"even an idiot can fit a dynojet kit and get it right"
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smart51
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| posted on 15/1/06 at 10:37 PM |
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On another subject, I don't actually have any trumpets as none came with my engine, I just have the trumpet bosses. Do I need them? Will they
fit under my foam filter?
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OX
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| posted on 15/1/06 at 10:59 PM |
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there are 2 big oval holes on the out side of the tube where the butterfly is ,the air jet is down one of the holes,,damn it i wish i could explain
better,cant load a picture into my archive
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progers
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| posted on 16/1/06 at 10:02 AM |
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From memory, you can block the correct hole through the slots in the trumpets (as stated by OX), this is what I did. Picture is below with an arrow to
the hole to block up (I think this is correct, OX please confirm as my memory is not as good as it used to be and I've since sold the car!).
Notice that the trumpets have been turned down and radiused - this means you can fit a low level foam filter OK and is supposed to give you a bit more
top end (at the expense of some midrange)
Cheers
Paul
 
Rescued attachment Carb hole.JPG
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smart51
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| posted on 16/1/06 at 10:32 AM |
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I've just spoken to TTS on the phone. There are two holes, the main air jet and the pilot air jet. the pilot air jet is the removable one (and
the one that I blocked). The main air jet is the other. Thanks for the pic
The grooves in the needle count from the top not the bottom, they said, so I have to change that too
Their instructions could be improved then.
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Coose
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| posted on 16/1/06 at 11:29 AM |
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I was looking for a pic to help you out on t'internet but failed dismally....
As the trumpets are difficult to remove without damaging them, I fitted the resin into mine by pushing it into the jet with a matchstick. It seems to
have worked fine!
I must agree that the instructions are a tad vague though......
Spin 'er off Well...
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smart51
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| posted on 16/1/06 at 09:12 PM |
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I've done it properly now and it seems to be better although the noise is different at idle. I went out in the rain and no kangaroos but my
head was frozen before I'd got a quarter of a mile from home so no speeds over 30 or revs over 5000. I'll go out tomorrow when its dry
to see how it runs.
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OX
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| posted on 16/1/06 at 11:15 PM |
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when you drop my silencer off i'll see if i can borrow these just to ballance the carbs,i dont work at the place any more but they might let
me
and then i'll have a play with your mixtures ,,its no rolling road set up but it will do untill you get it done
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smart51
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| posted on 17/1/06 at 08:18 AM |
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Thanks OX
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progers
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| posted on 17/1/06 at 08:33 AM |
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Balancing the carbs may well help, but I believe that the kit does make the idle a little "rougher" than normal until its really well
warmed up. However when its on the road it will fly!
Well done on getting it fixed in the end.
- Paul
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smart51
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| posted on 17/1/06 at 05:41 PM |
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It isn't raining today so I've taken the car out but it isn't good. It doesnt rev cleanly at any speed. It will stall if trying to
pull away at 2000 RPM which it would do effortlessly before (I have to be gentle when taking it out of the garage).
From 3000 RPM the acceleration is rough with lots of harsh vibration in through the chassis and it doesn't want to cruise below 3500.
From 4000 RPM at any throttle above a tickle it makes a deep growling noise like someone pressing the lowest note on a pipe organ that is lower than
the normal noise of the engine and it follows the pitch of the engine all the way up through the revs. It sounds a bit like a resonant vibration but
mainly it just sounds broken.
Things do improve slightly as the revs build but the car doesn't accelerate nearly as much as before from 5000 RPM. Perhaps half to two
thirds.
Help
what might the problem be?
I have removed and cleared out the idle air jets, making sure no debris got into the hole and I've blocked up the main air jet correctly now.
I can't take it out on the road as it is. It is just undrivable.
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smart51
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| posted on 18/1/06 at 10:37 PM |
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I tried setting the fuel level more accurately and I removed all the jets and made sure they were clean. It made a slight difference.
So I put it all back to standard, except for the epoxy on one hole in each slide. Everything is back to normal now. sound more like a sewing machine
with none of the bad low frequency noises. pulls at low revs again. warp speed is back to how it was. It is so much quieter and sweeter now than
with the jet kit fitted that I've doubled my estimate of how bad it was.
It is back to "normal" at not being right at full throttle at full revs though. Any ideas what I should do? perhaps 140 jets instead of
the 144s? I'm not sure why that would affect the idle and low throttle though.
[Edited on 19-1-2006 by smart51]
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progers
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| posted on 19/1/06 at 08:44 AM |
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As you are not far from TTS at Silverstone, I would be tempted to take it to them and their rolling road and get it sorted once and for all. They
charge £45 +VAT per hour for the rolling road session - pretty good compared with others I've seen. You'd need 2 hours max
- Paul
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smart51
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| posted on 20/1/06 at 08:37 PM |
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Success. I refitted the kit with the smaller 140 main jets. was fine below 3500 RPM and below 30 MPH and below 1/4 throttle, but not above. Phoned
TTS, whose dyno is still being upgraded (and will be for some time judging by the disapointment in the guys voice). They suggested richening up the
needles all the way. Hey presto. No spluttering, smooth reving all the way up at all throttle positions. Smooth response to openeing and closing
the throttle at different rates. I think I will get it dynoed when they're back up and running.
Not quite as fit-and-forget as they suggested but a result non the less.
[Edited on 21-1-2006 by smart51]
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