StuartA
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 posted on 18/3/03 at 08:07 PM |
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Air filter for 'Blade
We are trying to work out the engine mounts for the 'blade lump at the moment and in doing so need to know how low to sit it. From what we know, the
air filter is going to be the highest point on the engine, so ideally this needs to sit below the bonnet.
Question is where do we get an air filter for a blade lump? I have seen one on TTS Performance's website, but does anyone else make them?
Have you guys using blade engines bought a custom fit one or just a generic one? Anyone done this without modifying a standard bonnet? How much did
you pay?
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locodude
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| posted on 18/3/03 at 08:30 PM |
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When putting a 'blade' engine in an 'indy', we use the std airbox but turned upside down. This only sticks through the bonnet by about 1". We
then cover it with a bonnet bulge. See Matthew's car/stafford show pics to see what I mean.
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andyd
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| posted on 18/3/03 at 08:59 PM |
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Yeah thanks for that Chris but we'd rather not have any bulges in the bonnet. We'd rather have clean lines so as not to stop those flies from
smacking us in the face at high speed 
Any one else used a "purchased" (dirty word I know  ) air filter solution?
Andy
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locodude
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| posted on 18/3/03 at 11:50 PM |
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you're talking around £180 + a rolling road session to set it up. Our japanese friends spend millions of yen to get the induction setup to work right
and then we go and throw it away and expect it to work ok first time. It won't happen without a bucket load of luck and/or knowledge!
Also, if you want clean lines, why build a seven? They're about as aerodynamic as a barn door! If that's what you're after then a Fisher Fury or a
Phoenix is the way to go surely!
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andyd
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| posted on 19/3/03 at 08:43 AM |
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Chris,
We know that the airbox on the original bike is important and we know that to get it running correctly will require re-jetting and a tune up.
The issue here is that we don't want bulges in the bonnet because a) we've already got a bonnet and have no desire (no talent) to modify it and b)
because I think that sort of thing looks ugly.
It's got nothing to do with aerodynamics just aesthetics.
Andy
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dodgyroger
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| posted on 19/3/03 at 11:28 AM |
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Stuart,
I found this on Stuart Taylor's site. They use Pipercross sock filters to get around teh problem but the carbs need rejetting for which they charge
£90.
Check out http://www.stuart-taylor.co.uk/Blade_build/blade-2-3.htm
I have a picture of MK's first Blade demo which has a custom filter on it. I suspect they can explain what they did if asked (let us know of you get
an answer). I'm about to upload the MK demo car picture to my photo's area on this site.
Roger
http://www.dodgyroger.com/locost
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StuartA
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| posted on 19/3/03 at 12:03 PM |
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Roger,
Have you used the original airbox on your car? Don't like the idea of forking out £90 for the rejet if we go with an aftermarket filter. I'm sure a
bike shop could do it cheaper than that, as you generally have to get that done if you put an aftermarket exhaust on a bike.
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MK9R
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| posted on 19/3/03 at 01:04 PM |
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cost at TTS
The full cost of airfilter, backing plate and new jets from TTS is £124 (ZX9 version). Looks neat and tidy and the air rushing through the filter
sounds great.
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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dodgyroger
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| posted on 19/3/03 at 03:38 PM |
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Stuart,
At present I just have the std air box fitted for the trial start-up as I am not ready for the road just yet, so that's an issue I have yet to
resolve.
I have to admit, I saw a Fireblade car at MK the other day with the air box on back to front and just assumed it would fit under the bonnet. If it
doesn't then I'll have to consider one of the options being discussed here also.
I have rejetted SU carbs many times as I used to be in to classic cars. DIY re-jetting may be an option which would keep the cost down, depending on
how the jets are set/aligned. It's easy on SU carbs but I have not checked the Fireblade manual.
Roger
http://www.dodgyroger.com/locost
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paulf
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| posted on 19/3/03 at 09:23 PM |
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I seem to remember that there is a caterham demo car that has a standard airbox cut down so as the square paper filter is flush with the top, this
then fitted under the bonnet and breathed through louvers directly above. I may have a photo somewhere and will post it if i can find it.
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by dodgyroger
Stuart,
At present I just have the std air box fitted for the trial start-up as I am not ready for the road just yet, so that's an issue I have yet to
resolve.
I have to admit, I saw a Fireblade car at MK the other day with the air box on back to front and just assumed it would fit under the bonnet. If it
doesn't then I'll have to consider one of the options being discussed here also.
I have rejetted SU carbs many times as I used to be in to classic cars. DIY re-jetting may be an option which would keep the cost down, depending on
how the jets are set/aligned. It's easy on SU carbs but I have not checked the Fireblade manual.
Roger
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dodgyroger
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| posted on 20/3/03 at 02:28 PM |
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Yes that makes sense as the air filter is sandwiched between two halves of the air box. I was wondering if you could just leave the top off the air
box - not pretty but it should work OK?
Roger
http://www.dodgyroger.com/locost
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Jasper
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| posted on 20/3/03 at 04:04 PM |
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MK9R - I've just spoken to TTS and they want £90 for the filter kit and £80 for the jet kit, both plus vat. It will then at some point need to
be rolling roaded, another £90 + vat. unfortunately the ZX9 filter is huge and triangular and will be a PIG to make an ali box for.
Think I'm gonna just buy their filter kit and take it to a rolling road locally in Croydon and save me some ££££
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locodude
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| posted on 20/3/03 at 07:31 PM |
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See I told ya, I told ya. There's a guy oop north of me with an MK9R and he has the std filter poking thru the bonnet with the top off and it
looks a cows arse. If I were me I'd fabricate a nice one out of plastic but that's just me!
p.s. you should try an R1 Yam they're even worse! bloody vertical carbs!!
[Edited on 20/3/03 by locodude]
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Rorty
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| posted on 21/3/03 at 03:18 AM |
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I can understand some people wanting to retain the standard air box and filter, but if you've any dosh to spare, or you're chasing more
power, dump the thing.
The bikes are notoriously restricted because of the tiny air boxes, and the fact that they're just fed with a couple of little holes near the
front of the bike.
The first thing I do, is find a hedge for the airbox, and make up a foam filter. The engine then breathes loads more air, at all speeds, but, of
course, does require re-jetting. More air and fuel equals more power.
You will need to keep the trumpets (if fitted), but the foam filter can be just about any shape, therefore clearing the bonnet and other obstacles.
If you can't afford a "kit", or a rolling road session, just up the main jets for starters, and do a few runs with an air/fuel ratio
meter from a wrecker's, and a 3 wire (preheating) sensor from a suitable car. The most expensive part of the whole job, will be getting a
threaded bung turned up for the oxygen sensor.
It won't give you outright hp and torque figures, but you'll be able to optimise the fueling of your engine for every gear, your driving
style, altitude etc.
How many people live or drive their car at the same altitude as their engine was rolling roaded? You don't really need to know the power figures
either. All BECs go like poop off a shovel.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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MK9R
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| posted on 21/3/03 at 10:36 AM |
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Jasper,
I can't believe that, i got the airfilter you can see on my site, and the new jets for £124 at xmas!!
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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Jasper
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| posted on 21/3/03 at 12:34 PM |
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Have you still got the receipt? Can you tell me what is says EXACTY... I can then ring them up and order those specific parts and see what they
say...
and Rorty, thanks for in info....
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andyd
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| posted on 21/3/03 at 01:34 PM |
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MK9R + Jasper,
I called TTS yesterday and the bird on the blower said for a fireblade the filter was £81 + VAT and the jet kit was £90 + VAT. From the picture on
their site the filter doesn't look all that and for that money didn't look worth it.
Stuart and I said "b**ger that" and instead I've just ordered two Pipercross trumpet sock style air filters from Burton (code C1153)
for £12.72 + VAT each. They are 50mm high and are listed for 40 DCOE's but hopefully they'll be ok.
We'll then be buying a dynojet kit from a local bike retailer and then finding a local rolling road for optimum setup.
As Rorty says more air = more power
Waaaaaahhhhhhh!!!
Andy
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Jasper
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| posted on 21/3/03 at 03:26 PM |
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Cheers andy
Let me know if the socks fit.
Rhino Dyno in Croydon set-up a mates racing bikes, and he know's a chap around the corner with a car RR he can use with his bike software.
BTW what are where are Burton's??
[Edited on 21/3/03 by Jasper]
[Edited on 21/3/03 by Jasper]
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andyd
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| posted on 21/3/03 at 04:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
BTW what are where are Burton's??
Sorry, didn't make that very clear did I 
Burton Power www.burtonpower.com is the place.
I'll post with info about the sock fitting as hopefully they'll arrive tomorrow morning.
Andy
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 21/3/03 at 07:44 PM |
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if you search the pics you will see a pic of my blade air box, cost, under £5.
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andyd
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| posted on 21/3/03 at 07:50 PM |
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Yeah but Jon we don't have your talent
Andy
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 21/3/03 at 07:54 PM |
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none involved, folded ally, blade filter, job done, bonnet on , no buldge, n rollers say it works too..........
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andyd
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| posted on 21/3/03 at 08:05 PM |
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Well as Rorty has said, the more air + fuel the bigger power. Not that I think we'll be disappointed with how she'll run but it's
always nice to have a little in reserve
Andy
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MK9R
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| posted on 21/3/03 at 11:14 PM |
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Jasper,
sorry destroyed the reciept incase the missus found it. Just to makesure we are talking about the same jet kit, all that came in ours were the 4 main
jets (see hints and tips page on web site for picture). Maybe they made a balls up?? They did say that a blade jet kit was more expensive as there
were more parts in the jet kit.
I have to agree that £80 for the filter and plate is a bit pricey when you actually look at waht you get, but it does look (and sound) good!
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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highspeeddirt
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| posted on 22/3/03 at 05:56 AM |
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When I was at Stuart Taylor's 2 weeks ago I asked about rejetting the carbs and Ian Gray said to either speak to TTS and ask for his usual jets
to suit the zx9r, or just to run the car to a rolling road and get it all set up.
From what I can see the £90 TTS quote is for a Dynojet kit which comes with 2 sets of main jets, needles, instructions and a selection of drills and
tools to do the job. If you look on holeshot racing's site they quote £90 for the Dynojet kit plus another £90 for labour and dyno time to set
it up, all plus VAT. If you are paying for the kit you would think fitting it yourself before the rolling road session would be cheaper. Also if it
only comes with two options on jet sizes then it won't take much work to decide which are best.
I think I'm going to fit a Dynojet kit and sock type filters and then have it set up at a later date when I've saved the money!
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