eddie
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 posted on 21/4/03 at 10:37 PM |
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Transaxle to suit a ford engine???
looking to be building a single seat mid engined car (probably looking like a radically altered anorexic se7en style car)
looked into using sierra IRS with an 6-8" propshaft from diff to g-box, is this feasable or will it be (from my doodles anyway) way too long
looking??? (compared to the length of a se7en / Locost)
If it isnt, then are there any available transaxles to suit a ford engine (cvh / V6)???
if this still is a non starter, then what liquid cooled engine / transaxle combinations are commonly available in the UK???
(building on a budget, so no porche or ferrari suggestions please)
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eddie
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| posted on 21/4/03 at 10:52 PM |
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should have mentioned i want an inline engine, (formula 1 style layout, kind of)
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Alan B
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| posted on 21/4/03 at 11:59 PM |
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Eddie if you must go inline then VW is probably your best bet, with an adapter...or a cheap?..ex FF hewland box
I agree the short prop route will make a LONG car...
I (and others) are going the transverse route...tons of cheap ex FWD powertrains.....and a very compact unit...
Good luck and keep us informed.......
Alan
http://www.desicodesign.com/meerkat/
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kb58
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| posted on 22/4/03 at 01:05 AM |
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I agree with Alan. When you lay out all your parts end to end, you'll see you're going to have a very long car. As Alan said, it's
far better to just use a readily available FWD drivetrain, and you have the whole solution immediately. There's tons of possibilites out there
with lots of power...
I'm partial to Honda and is what I'm using in my mid-engine Mini. Nissan has some very nice FWD setups too. Of course the older the
drivetrain, the cheaper it is. Just "dial up" your budget.
[Edited on 22/4/03 by kb58]
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MattWatson
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| posted on 22/4/03 at 02:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
Eddie if you must go inline then VW is probably your best bet, with an adapter...or a cheap?..ex FF hewland box
I agree the short prop route will make a LONG car...
I (and others) are going the transverse route...tons of cheap ex FWD powertrains.....and a very compact unit...
Good luck and keep us informed.......
Alan
http://www.desicodesign.com/meerkat/
One good thing about the VW drivetrain, you can swap transmissions at will. If you start with a cheap 4 speed (which the autocrossers love as they are
VERY light) you can switch to a 6 speed by just swapping bolts.
But then I am partial to VW...
Matt Watson
--------------------------------
VW 1.6L SOHC Turbo Mid engined car
http://members.shaw.ca/wavindustries/
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TheGecko
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| posted on 22/4/03 at 01:24 PM |
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Eddie,
I'll add another vote along with Alan and kb58 for a transverse layout. There are hundreds of options available and the end result will be MUCH
shorter.
Go to Peter Ogden's wonderful Locost 7 data page (Link) and download the article on the Ox7.
It's a clubman style car with an inline mid-engien and (to my eyes at least) the proportions are all wrong. Here's a small image to give
you the idea:
If you insist on going inline, look at older SAAB's, Renault's, and Audi's most of which have inline FWD drivetrains. In fact the
Lotus Europa used a Renault drivetrain in a mid-engine format all those years ago.
Hope this is helpful,
Dominic
Brisbane, Australia
http://www.DIYSportsCar.org
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MrFluffy
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 posted on 22/4/03 at 04:58 PM |
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Delorian used a renault transaxle, in fact they used the PRV (Peugeot-Renault-Volvo) v6 turbo motor complete too. There'll be a load of waffle
about uni1's in the archives here too .
Ive shied away from older vw transaxles as fitted to beetles and bay window bus's because they seem to require vast quantity of strengthening to
stand serious abuse above about 140bhp.. I do have a earlier swingaxle vw box with a ford adaptor kit, but it involved changing the first motion shaft
to one that fitted the ford flywheel, ive got a cvh 1600 out of a orion hung on it at the moment and im keeping it round to build a buggy from that
wont need lots of power, so unfortunatly its not for sale!
I think the vw poster means the later fwd motors though..
Also a option is a audi transaxle which are usually cheap and cheerful, but you may struggle finding a adaptor plate for a ford motor unless you plan
on making your own.
I like mid engine longitudinal motors because, well, it makes it easy to get at everything if you have a bodyshell you can flip off...
toodles
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eddie
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| posted on 22/4/03 at 10:02 PM |
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thanks guys, by Vee Dub, are we talking beetle? ugly things that they are, they are the only vw's with the setup i can think of,
if so what VW cars will mate to the T/axle that had proper engines (liquid cooled, and dont sound like a sewing machine)
like the sound of the 6 speed units, any websites worth looking at???
Audi sounds good as well, still looking into suspension arrangements,
i get the feeling, this is going to become one of those that evolves as i build....
now where did i put that doodle book.....
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Alan B
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| posted on 22/4/03 at 10:44 PM |
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I was meaning beetles in terms of transaxles....they have been mated to just about every egine every made (well a lot at least)...
http://www.kennedyeng.com/ adapters
http://www.fortinracing.com/transaxles.html HD transaxles (NOT cheap)
HTH
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Alan B
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| posted on 22/4/03 at 10:52 PM |
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Also, this one:
http://www.heckermachine.com/new.pages/motorsports.html
Don't forget the 215Ci Alum V8 Buick is of course AKA Rover....:-)
As was mentioned they do need some work if serious abuse is intended, but the weak areas are well known and fixes have been developed....
Still prefer transverse myself though....:d
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kb58
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| posted on 23/4/03 at 01:52 AM |
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quote:
I like mid engine longitudinal motors because, well, it makes it easy to get at everything if you have a bodyshell you can flip off...toodles
I respect your opinion, and God know how opinionated us builders are, but I don't see a longitudinal layout as being superior in any way (unless
you're building an F1 car.) Any mid-engine car using a transverse ex-FWD drivetrain will also have a flip up cover. It's just as easy to
get to stuff... well, maybe 90% as easy. Visually it saves *feet* in terms of wheelbase, but to each his own.
[Edited on 23/4/03 by kb58]
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ned
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| posted on 23/4/03 at 01:19 PM |
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VW boxes are used for several sports racing cars with hewland internals, a friend uses this layout on his Lola with a beetle gearbox casing, 4 speeds
+ 2ltr 16v vauxhall mounted inline.
I also remember hearing from Jeremny Clarkson on Top Gear that the Lotus Esprit still uses a renault gearbox for it's inline engine.
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GO
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| posted on 23/4/03 at 02:26 PM |
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quote:
I also remember hearing from Jeremny Clarkson on Top Gear that the Lotus Esprit still uses a renault gearbox for it's inline engine.
And thats why the Esprit is going out of production! Apparently they've run out of gear boxes, no-one makes them anymore and apparently its not
cost effective for Lotus to re-engineer it  Damn shame if you ask me, the Espirt is an absolutely gorgeous car thats more than stood the test of
time.
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ned
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| posted on 23/4/03 at 02:42 PM |
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I agree, the esprit is a classic, popup headlights and everything. a renault 21 transaxle if i remember correctly?
They killed the cosworth and now the esprit, different cars, but both classics. the poxy focus rs isn't a good enough replacement for the
cossie. only 210 odd bhp, where are we to get stupidly tunable and cheap engines from in ten years time!!
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MrFluffy
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| posted on 30/4/03 at 08:30 AM |
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quote:
I respect your opinion, and God know how opinionated us builders are, but I don't see a longitudinal layout as being superior in any way (unless
you're building an F1 car.) Any mid-engine car using a transverse ex-FWD drivetrain will also have a flip up cover. It's just as easy to
get to stuff... well, maybe 90% as easy. Visually it saves *feet* in terms of wheelbase, but to each his own.
Hehe its more of a personal thing, I absolutely hate working on cars in confined spaces, and the nicest cars to work on I have had has been a moggie
minor with flip front, and a v8 ford pop again with a flip front, I did have a mini with a flip front but there were bits on that which access to was
awkward at times. Ill go the extra mile for that 10% 
I agree that it can make the car visually a bit long but Im not using a locost inspired body, Im reworking my nova kitcar which is stretched
lengthways anyway from its pinto days. In fact if I move the rear arch back, I could probally shorten the car and still have the layout..Of course
we're opinionated, otherwise we'd just accept some manufacturers mass produced offering served up to us like good little sheep wouldnt we
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Alan B
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| posted on 30/4/03 at 01:19 PM |
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Mr F
Don't you guys have a phrase?
"Vive la difference"....or something like that..
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Noodle
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| posted on 30/4/03 at 02:32 PM |
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quote:
but I don't see a longitudinal layout as being superior in any way
If one was to be pedantic, one could always point out that an inline engine with it's crank running along the centre line of the car has
inherently better NVH properties than a transverse one as well as better weight distribution across the car.
But of course, that would be pedantic.
Neil.
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Alan B
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| posted on 30/4/03 at 03:12 PM |
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Mr Noodle....I wouldn't argue with that....(In fact I couldn't without some research.....)
BUT, which of us on here is really concerned with NVH.....?
Still, it's all good chat....
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GO
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| posted on 30/4/03 at 03:29 PM |
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NVH???
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Noodle
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| posted on 30/4/03 at 03:33 PM |
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quote:
BUT, which of us on here is really concerned with NVH.....
Not me
I suppose if one were to continue along a thread of pedantricity (I've just made that word up. And I like it.) one could argue that an
inline mid-engined vehicle would keep a greater proportion of it's weight (assuming the engine constituted a major proportion) within the
wheelbase too. A transverse motor would be more likely to concentrate weight over the rear axle line giving a greater polar moment.
As an aside, you'd have to have a proper 'straight' motor for best NVH. None of these hairy V's with their lateral forces. I
shudder when manufacturers turn from straight 6's to Vee's. The smell of front wheel drive can't be far away...
I've just made (most of) that up. Please, anyone feel free to flame me
Neil.
Eddie: What about a FWD Subaru box? They're inline and strong. Some Italian car was using one recently with a n/a 2.5 Legacy flat-four. Flat
four? NVH? Pah! Still, I like 'em.
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Alan B
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| posted on 30/4/03 at 03:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by GO
NVH???
Noise, vibration and harshness
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GO
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| posted on 30/4/03 at 04:33 PM |
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quote:
Noise, vibration and harshness
Oh, ok. Thats why I didn't know what it meant, NVH is all part of the fun of a raw sports car surely!!
Noodle, I agree with what you're saying about an inline having the weight more central between the wheels, as opposed to a tranverse (at either
end) which puts the weight almost directly on top of the axel.
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kb58
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| posted on 1/5/03 at 01:04 AM |
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quote:
...I absolutely hate working on cars in confined spaces, and the nicest cars to work on I have had has been a moggie minor with flip front, and a v8
ford pop again with a flip front, I did have a mini with a flip front but there were bits on that which access to was awkward at times...
Nah! Look at this link. It shows the room around the engine I'm using in my project. Plenty of room.
http://members.cox.net/kimini22/car/diary3/rear1.jpg
and
http://members.cox.net/kimini22/car/diary3/side1.jpg
There's tons of room around it. Seems like you're thinking of how little room there is around a FWD drivetrain in it's stock
location. While true, that's not your problem anymore because you're putting the drivetrain into something where you can free it up and
have tons of space. I still say, "not a problem, and so much easier."
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