chrisf
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 12:18 AM |
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High frquency whining sound
Hi Gents:
My father came into town last night and saw the car for the first time. Of course, I had to take him out for a few hard runs. So after about 30
minutes and a few red line shifts, I pull the car into the garage. I always like to take the bonnet off because of the heat build up. This time, as
soon as I removed the bonnet, a very loud, very high pitch whine came from somewhere in the engine bay. It is very difficult to describe the sound but
it was very high frequency, almost too high to here! This went on a couple minutes and I frantically ran around the car trying to figure out where the
sound came from. I pulled all the fuses and nothing happens. Then, it suddenly stopped. I put the trickle charger on and left it overnight
Today, an uncle comes to town and I’d like to take him for his first ride. I turn the ignition and…nothing! Usually I hear the fuel pump start
ticking. I pushed the start button and I get this weird ticking sound, but no start. So I hooked some jumper cables to a spare car battery and it
starts right up. Remove the cables, get in the car, tap the throttle and the engine dies.
Since I have a spare engine relay, I tried that and it is the same weird ticking sound. When I jumped it, the engine fires right up, but dies when I
hit the throttle. The only thing I can think of is that it is a starter relay issue. I pulled the plug and sure enough, there is a slight burn mark on
it. Could this be the issue? Moreover, what was the very high frequency shrill that came from the engine?
--Thanks, Chris
PS It is a 98 Blade motor.
 
Rescued attachment DSCN0128.JPG
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kb58
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 03:59 AM |
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Vacuum leak? Those can make very high frequency whistles.
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 05:42 AM |
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Very hard to dianose remotely but maybe the whine was a bearing noise? such as the alternator cus you get a ticking noise when there isn't
enough juice to turn the engine over. So is the battery charged and is the alternator charging.
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Toady1
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 07:35 AM |
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you sure your rectifier and alternater is working ok as it sounds to me that the battery is just loosing its charge, hence why when you jump lead the
car it starts but whne you remove them the engine has no power to make the spark. check the voltage of the battery and the output to the battery....
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Macbeast
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 08:10 AM |
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If your battery is down, you can get a ticking noise ( more like hammering actually) as the solenoid tries to pull in, battery volts die, and solenoid
drops out, solenoid tries to pull in...
Was the whining noise with engine switched off, or still running ?
Tempted to ask if your wife/girlfriend was standing around, but I won't 
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DEAN C.
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 08:52 AM |
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As already said you obviously have a starting/charging fault and odds are the whining is linked to this.
once a battery condition and charging voltage check is done I think that the noise will be found to be linked,either a starter fault(staying engaged?)
or possibly the alternator under load or the bearings in the unit itself are siezing or failing.
It could be a combination of both,if the alternator is siezing then it will take more starting ampage to crank it and keep it going.
Hope this helps as a starting point,its always something obvious when you work it out.
Once I've finished a project why do I start another?
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chrisf
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 01:49 PM |
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Gentelmen:
Thanks for the reply. When I put the trickle charger on the battery after the hard run, it came up as fully charged. I'm using a SuperDream
(actually the US equivalent) as the rectifier. But to be honest, over the last few weeks, I seem to be losing capacity of the battery. I have my
headlights hard wired on the ignition circuit. I used to be able to start the car just fine, but now it seems I have to pull the fuse. I thought it
was a battery capacity issue and planned on replacing the bike battery with an Oddessy.
The whine I heard was when the engine was off. It was almost like a constant, very loud dog whistle.
My thought on the ticking sound was that the burnt switch needed more current to arch through the plug and switch the relay, but I'm now having
second thougts.
Where could the blade engine have a vacuum leak? In the carbs?
--Thanks, Chris
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Macbeast
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 02:46 PM |
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Assuming you have an electric radiator fan. is it wired to keep turning after the engine is switched off until temp drops ?
Lets say the fan motor developed fault after your fast run, it might make the whining noise for a few mins and thereafter fail so as to drain
battery.
But, as Dean says, always suspect a simple fault. Good luck.
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spunky
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 03:41 PM |
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If you are using a bike battery, then chances are it's had it. Notoriously bad at recovering once they have had a total discharge.
'Clicking' is definately the solenoid pulling in/out as has been posted.
Never heard of bearing failure in the alternator area of a bike engine. They are directly linked to the crank and most are wet windings and sit in the
oil.
The whine sounds like some sort of vapour/air escape. Possibly fuel vapour as it evaporates with the heat. I know that bike petrol tanks
'squeal' when out in the sun. Is your crank breather clear? have you got a swirl pot under the hood with a breather on it?
John
Damn speeling missteaks
[Edited on 11/6/06 by spunky]
The reckless man may not live as long......
But the cautious man does not live at all.....
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DEAN C.
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 04:40 PM |
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Quote-(Never heard of bearing failure in the alternator area of a bike engine. They are directly linked to the crank and most are wet windings and sit
in the oil. )
Yeah you have a point,was thinking in car not bike mode.
Spunky is right about batteries as well,most times a drop test will show the fault but as an old electrician friend once said to me"the only
real test is if it works or not".
You're right about tank vent valves especially on injection engines,Chris didn't say it was when it was stood before.
[Edited on 11/6/06 by DEAN C.]
Once I've finished a project why do I start another?
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Macbeast
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 05:43 PM |
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If it were fuel vapour escaping, wouldn't there be a strong smell of petrol ?
What I would do....
Disconnect suspect battery.
Connect jump battery but don't start yet, leave everything switched off. Check with meter...is there a current drain? If yes isolate circuits
and locate
If no drain, start engine on jump battery and see if it runs normally. Get up to temperature, switch off and see if whine reappears and try to
locate.
Whine is possibly from pressurised air escaping from header tank or upper part of cooling system, possibly from some faulty electrical component that
still has volts on it until battery dies due to drain.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 06:20 PM |
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The high pitched sound you mention could be coming from the battery. We accidentally overcharged a bike battery and it could quite easily be heard,
like a high pitched whistle coming from a small vent hole. The battery was fried although would hold a small amount of charge. Definitely sounds like
same problem.
Phil
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spunky
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 06:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
The high pitched sound you mention could be coming from the battery. We accidentally overcharged a bike battery and it could quite easily be heard,
like a high pitched whistle coming from a small vent hole. The battery was fried although would hold a small amount of charge. Definitely sounds like
same problem.
Phil
Good call Hellfire...
Voltage regulator/rectifier maybe shot. Had this myself, the battery was overcharged and cooked, (actually started to swell) was making a whistling
noise and you could smell rotten eggs.
This would also explain the poor starting.
The reckless man may not live as long......
But the cautious man does not live at all.....
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chrisf
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 07:27 PM |
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Gentlemen:
All good suggestions. While I was driving, I drove through a puddle of horrible smelling water. When I got home, I still smelled it. I think that was
the sulfer/rotten egg smell and I bet the sound was the battery bleeding off. I'll order a new battery tomorrow and a new SuperDream shortly.
But if this happens again, do I need to start looking at a new stator?
--Chris
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spunky
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 08:16 PM |
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Chris, the alternator will be fine, but certainly sounds like your voltage regulator has fried and overcharging the battery.
They get quite warm during use anyway, many have cooling fins as part of the unit. The high temperatures in the engine bay may have been too much for
it.
On my installation I made a seperate panel (like a mini bulkhead) to protect them from the heat.
John
The reckless man may not live as long......
But the cautious man does not live at all.....
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stevebubs
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 10:23 PM |
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Blade rectifiers are notorious for heat problems.
Over here, the Kit Car Workshop do an uprated one. Not sure about a supplier Stateside, though.
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Fred W B
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| posted on 12/6/06 at 06:09 AM |
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I just LOVE this forum. My next project is just so going to be a BEC. With this level of support it seems nothing is a problem  
Cheers
Fred W B
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russbost
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| posted on 13/6/06 at 07:25 AM |
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I suspect your high pitched noise may have been vapour escaping from your rad/header tank. Engines often heat soak as they are switched off &
there is no water flow around the unit, probably completely unconnected to your other prob which I agree sounds like an overcharged battery, the
sulphur smell you describe is often accompanied by a strange metallic sort of taste/smell.
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chrisf
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| posted on 13/6/06 at 11:43 AM |
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Thanks for the suggestion.I don't think it was radiator vapor because the water temp was in the 180F range. Rather than f_ck around with a US
spec/type SuperDream (which are different because they have more wires than the UK spec), I just won an auction and will import one. I also bought a
Yuasa 12a battery from a distributor at work. Cost me a whopping $30. Too bad I didn't remember them the first time I bought my battery.
--Chris
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